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I got really frustrated when I started to see 3 rapid flashes when a Toyota or Kia driver put on the brakes on the Highway. What had been a common signal for “y

I got really frustrated when I started to see 3 rapid flashes when a Toyota or Kia driver put on the brakes on the Highway. What had been a common signal for “you’re a little too close” was now shown every time the driver pressed the brake pedal. I guess I could’ve complained to one of the manufacturers, but what do they care? I’m not buying their cars.

pc86 5y ago
This isn't the manufacturer, they're aftermarket. It started (sensibly) with some emergency vehicles having it to make sure to get the attention of the driver[s] behind them. At some point people in high-traffic areas started thinking their 18 year old Corolla was worthy of the same treatment.
- vesrah 5y ago
  Meanwhile, this is standard on some European market cars under heavy braking.
  - reaperducer 5y ago
    Meanwhile, this is standard on some European market cars under heavy braking. Instead of blinking the brake lights, some U.S. cars automatically turn on the hazard lights under heavy braking. It's standard on mine.
    - Symbiote 5y ago
      In Europe under emergency braking, the brake lights pulse (I think, i.e. from half-lit to full-lit) and the hazard lights flash too. The hazard lights stay lit if you stop, at least on some cars. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTXR5JMsR5o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTXR5JMsR5o
    - u801e 5y ago
      Which models do that? And do they have amber color turn signal lamps?
kalleboo 5y ago
> What had been a common signal for “you’re a little too close” I've never seen or heard of this. But seeing cars that flash their brake light under heavy/emergency braking is common (typically high-end European brands)
- sbarre 5y ago
  I've commonly seen people just throw on their hazard blinkers in case of drastic braking on the highway... especially in bad weather. I've done it myself when going from regular speed to unexpected traffic, in the hope that the person behind me is paying attention...
  - jowsie 5y ago
    This is pretty standard in the UK, most higher end cars even do it automatically.
    - sbarre 5y ago
      I wish it was more standard where I live (Canada)..
      - soneil 5y ago
        I'm actually not a fan of it. Granted I've mostly driven older cars, without the wonders of ABS etc - but most situations that require heavy, unplanned breaking for me, are also times I really should have two hands on the wheel. I'm not fundamentally opposed - systems that do it automatically sound like a fantastic compromise. I just think if it's dangerous enough that I feel other drivers need more warning than normal, it's probably dangerous enough that I should have full control.
        bdamm 5y ago
        First, do what you need to get the car under control. Then, switch on the hazards so the driver behind you gets a heads up. Obviously you don’t risk crashing fumbling for the hazards. Particularly useful on rural roads with many turns where the slowdown really might be surprising, or on off ramps where the car behind you might not have arrived yet.
japhyr 5y ago
This is the Pulse[0] "safety system". I was trying to buy a new truck this spring, and going through the back-and-forth of talking to a number of dealers. I had a vehicle specced out, and ready to commit to, and I asked to review the final paperwork. There was a $400 charge listed that hadn't been disclosed earlier. I was frustrated because I'd asked numerous times, "Am I going to see any additional charges on the final paperwork?" The dealer explained that this is a "critical safety feature" that they install on all the vehicles they sell. He then explained that it makes the brake light flash whenever you press the brake pedal. I read about it for 10 minutes, and found there's a legitimate system in use in Europe that detects emergency braking and flashes the brake light. Since that system detects emergency braking and not just pressing the brake pedal, it doesn't go off all the time and actually means something to other drivers. The Pulse system is just a $30 part that's spliced into the wires right behind the brake light, that the dealer gets to charge $400 for it. And it annoys everyone driving behind you. I live in a small town on an island with 14 miles of road. There were about five vehicles here five or ten years ago with this system, and they stood out because we all start to recognize each other's cars in an isolated town of 10,000. All of those cars are gone or have had the system removed. I told the dealer I'd look like an a***e to bring that system back to our town. He called back later to say I was lucky and they hadn't installed the system on this particular vehicle yet, and he got special permission to sell me one without Pulse. I told him I found a dealer that wasn't trying to upsell useless parts and hung up. I've heard of people buying new without running into this kind of tactic. But this is the first time I've ever bought a new vehicle, and I ran into almost every issue I've read about when dealing with new car dealers. [0] https://www.pulseprotects.com https://www.pulseprotects.com
- masklinn 5y ago
  > The dealer explained that this is a "critical safety feature" that they install on all the vehicles they sell. He then explained that it makes the brake light flash whenever you press the brake pedal. I read about it for 10 minutes, and found there's a legitimate system in use in Europe that detects emergency braking and flashes the brake light. Since that system detects emergency braking and not just pressing the brake pedal, it doesn't go off all the time and actually means something to other drivers. Good god, slimy sales tactics asides that sounds like complete cargo-culting of the feature making it not just useless for its original purpose but actively misleading. And I would expect the original feature grew at least in part from the common habit (I don't think it's ever required) of enabling the hazards when reaching an unforeseen obstruction: on many cars these days the hazards will automatically switch on during emergency braking (usually detected via an accelerometer, it tends to come on at the same time as brake assist though I don't think the two are coupled), it's possible that on some the brakes will also flash though I can't remember ever seeing that. Of course many US cars have red turn signals / hazards, and US standards even allow brakes and turn signals to use the same lights, which is… not sane.
mjlee 5y ago
I'm reasonably sure this is because in the US the rear brake lights are often also used as the turn signal and the hazard lights. Under hard braking on European/Japanese cars the hazard lights will automatically come on. Because they're overloaded in the US it's hard to tell if it's that, or the brake lights flashing unless you're paying close attention to the middle brake light. Edit: Just seen the comment about the Pulse system - didn't know about that!
- 29083011397778 5y ago
  > Unless you're paying close attention to the middle brake light Better hope it's not burnt out, like I see all too often in North America
tannhaeuser 5y ago
> 3 rapid flashes [...] a common signal for "you’re a little too close" That's new to me as EU driver. What I tend to do is hit brakes three or more times in a rhythmic fashion to signal there's traffic jam ahead; specifically on Autobahn where speeds go high with distances often way too low, instead of turning on alarm blinkers.
- CRConrad 5y ago
  I think that was exactly what was meant: A manual[§] signal. Only the context the GP meant, and that I've also seen it used in, was usually a more personal "You're driving too close on my arse; back off a bit to create a safety margin" rather than your warning of stau ahead. ___ [§]: Well, pedal.
  - tannhaeuser 5y ago
    Ah ok, that makes sense; it's basically the same thing. Though there are other nuances to "teach" other drivers behind you, like driving extra-slow or breaking once I guess.
    - CRConrad 5y ago
      > Though there are other nuances to "teach" other drivers behind you, like driving extra-slow Yeah, but I don't want to drive extra slow, do I? For one thing, I want to proceed as fast as possible, to get where I'm going. For another, if I slow down, the gap in front of me will widen enough that some fucker -- quite possibly the one now tailgating me -- will squeeze into it, and then I am the one tailgating someone. > or breaking once I guess. Quite the Freudian typo... Yes, braking for real while being tailgated is rather likely to lead to things breaking. And since one of those things is me (and another my car), I'd prefer not to.

pc86 5y ago

This isn't the manufacturer, they're aftermarket. It started (sensibly) with some emergency vehicles having it to make sure to get the attention of the driver[s] behind them. At some point people in high-traffic areas started thinking their 18 year old Corolla was worthy of the same treatment.

vesrah 5y ago
Meanwhile, this is standard on some European market cars under heavy braking.
- reaperducer 5y ago
  Meanwhile, this is standard on some European market cars under heavy braking. Instead of blinking the brake lights, some U.S. cars automatically turn on the hazard lights under heavy braking. It's standard on mine.
  - Symbiote 5y ago
    In Europe under emergency braking, the brake lights pulse (I think, i.e. from half-lit to full-lit) and the hazard lights flash too. The hazard lights stay lit if you stop, at least on some cars. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTXR5JMsR5o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTXR5JMsR5o
  - u801e 5y ago
    Which models do that? And do they have amber color turn signal lamps?

kalleboo 5y ago

> What had been a common signal for “you’re a little too close” I've never seen or heard of this. But seeing cars that flash their brake light under heavy/emergency braking is common (typically high-end European brands)

sbarre 5y ago
I've commonly seen people just throw on their hazard blinkers in case of drastic braking on the highway... especially in bad weather. I've done it myself when going from regular speed to unexpected traffic, in the hope that the person behind me is paying attention...
- jowsie 5y ago
  This is pretty standard in the UK, most higher end cars even do it automatically.
  - sbarre 5y ago
    I wish it was more standard where I live (Canada)..
    - soneil 5y ago
      I'm actually not a fan of it. Granted I've mostly driven older cars, without the wonders of ABS etc - but most situations that require heavy, unplanned breaking for me, are also times I really should have two hands on the wheel. I'm not fundamentally opposed - systems that do it automatically sound like a fantastic compromise. I just think if it's dangerous enough that I feel other drivers need more warning than normal, it's probably dangerous enough that I should have full control.
      - bdamm 5y ago
        First, do what you need to get the car under control. Then, switch on the hazards so the driver behind you gets a heads up. Obviously you don’t risk crashing fumbling for the hazards. Particularly useful on rural roads with many turns where the slowdown really might be surprising, or on off ramps where the car behind you might not have arrived yet.

japhyr 5y ago

This is the Pulse[0] "safety system". I was trying to buy a new truck this spring, and going through the back-and-forth of talking to a number of dealers. I had a vehicle specced out, and ready to commit to, and I asked to review the final paperwork. There was a $400 charge listed that hadn't been disclosed earlier. I was frustrated because I'd asked numerous times, "Am I going to see any additional charges on the final paperwork?" The dealer explained that this is a "critical safety feature" that they install on all the vehicles they sell. He then explained that it makes the brake light flash whenever you press the brake pedal. I read about it for 10 minutes, and found there's a legitimate system in use in Europe that detects emergency braking and flashes the brake light. Since that system detects emergency braking and not just pressing the brake pedal, it doesn't go off all the time and actually means something to other drivers. The Pulse system is just a $30 part that's spliced into the wires right behind the brake light, that the dealer gets to charge $400 for it. And it annoys everyone driving behind you. I live in a small town on an island with 14 miles of road. There were about five vehicles here five or ten years ago with this system, and they stood out because we all start to recognize each other's cars in an isolated town of 10,000. All of those cars are gone or have had the system removed. I told the dealer I'd look like an a***e to bring that system back to our town. He called back later to say I was lucky and they hadn't installed the system on this particular vehicle yet, and he got special permission to sell me one without Pulse. I told him I found a dealer that wasn't trying to upsell useless parts and hung up. I've heard of people buying new without running into this kind of tactic. But this is the first time I've ever bought a new vehicle, and I ran into almost every issue I've read about when dealing with new car dealers. [0] https://www.pulseprotects.com https://www.pulseprotects.com

masklinn 5y ago
> The dealer explained that this is a "critical safety feature" that they install on all the vehicles they sell. He then explained that it makes the brake light flash whenever you press the brake pedal. I read about it for 10 minutes, and found there's a legitimate system in use in Europe that detects emergency braking and flashes the brake light. Since that system detects emergency braking and not just pressing the brake pedal, it doesn't go off all the time and actually means something to other drivers. Good god, slimy sales tactics asides that sounds like complete cargo-culting of the feature making it not just useless for its original purpose but actively misleading. And I would expect the original feature grew at least in part from the common habit (I don't think it's ever required) of enabling the hazards when reaching an unforeseen obstruction: on many cars these days the hazards will automatically switch on during emergency braking (usually detected via an accelerometer, it tends to come on at the same time as brake assist though I don't think the two are coupled), it's possible that on some the brakes will also flash though I can't remember ever seeing that. Of course many US cars have red turn signals / hazards, and US standards even allow brakes and turn signals to use the same lights, which is… not sane.

mjlee 5y ago

I'm reasonably sure this is because in the US the rear brake lights are often also used as the turn signal and the hazard lights. Under hard braking on European/Japanese cars the hazard lights will automatically come on. Because they're overloaded in the US it's hard to tell if it's that, or the brake lights flashing unless you're paying close attention to the middle brake light. Edit: Just seen the comment about the Pulse system - didn't know about that!

29083011397778 5y ago
> Unless you're paying close attention to the middle brake light Better hope it's not burnt out, like I see all too often in North America

tannhaeuser 5y ago

> 3 rapid flashes [...] a common signal for "you’re a little too close" That's new to me as EU driver. What I tend to do is hit brakes three or more times in a rhythmic fashion to signal there's traffic jam ahead; specifically on Autobahn where speeds go high with distances often way too low, instead of turning on alarm blinkers.

CRConrad 5y ago
I think that was exactly what was meant: A manual[§] signal. Only the context the GP meant, and that I've also seen it used in, was usually a more personal "You're driving too close on my arse; back off a bit to create a safety margin" rather than your warning of stau ahead. ___ [§]: Well, pedal.
- tannhaeuser 5y ago
  Ah ok, that makes sense; it's basically the same thing. Though there are other nuances to "teach" other drivers behind you, like driving extra-slow or breaking once I guess.
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    > Though there are other nuances to "teach" other drivers behind you, like driving extra-slow Yeah, but I don't want to drive extra slow, do I? For one thing, I want to proceed as fast as possible, to get where I'm going. For another, if I slow down, the gap in front of me will widen enough that some fucker -- quite possibly the one now tailgating me -- will squeeze into it, and then I am the one tailgating someone. > or breaking once I guess. Quite the Freudian typo... Yes, braking for real while being tailgated is rather likely to lead to things breaking. And since one of those things is me (and another my car), I'd prefer not to.