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Traditionally Finns love coffee that is extremely lightly roasted, and is the finest quality (and highest caffeine content). You don't find the preference for s

Traditionally Finns love coffee that is extremely lightly roasted, and is the finest quality (and highest caffeine content). You don't find the preference for so light roasts anywhere else. The bulk blend that Finns consume in large quantities "Paulig Juhla Mokka" is made from high quality beans. Young people have started drinking more dark roasted blends, similar to coffees in Sweden and rest of the Europe. Swedish coffee taste is completely different. Dark roast all over.

paavohtl 5y ago
> Traditionally Finns love coffee that is extremely lightly roasted No, not really. It's called light roast here, but my understanding is that compared to actual light roasts (e.g speciality coffees from smaller roasters) most coffees tend be actually closer to medium or even dark roasts. Good quality light roasts taste of their origin characteristics (coffee from different places tends to taste different, who would've guessed) and they are closer to acidic than bitter.
- Nokinside 5y ago
  Heh. I think you go little carried out with you coffee enthusiasm. It's called light roast here and everywhere. I challenge you to find any place on earth where normal people (not coffee connoisseurs) drink lighter roast.
  - paavohtl 5y ago
    I'm not claiming that people of any nation in particular drink lighter roasted coffee, or even that Finland is exceptional in this regard. It's not a competition. I'm arguing that on the whole spectrum of coffee roasting, even Finnish supposedly light roasted coffee is not very light at all.
- httpsterio 5y ago
  Normal light roasted juhlamokka is maybe a 2/5 roast, medium roast tends to start at 3/5. When roasting coffee, they're of course graded visually but there are two important bench marks: first and second crack. If you don't roast your coffee beyond the first crack, it's essentially still raw and unsuitable for drinking. Second crack happens later in the roast process if you keep roasting it, usually medium coffee is taken out before the second crack as it tends to get noticeably darker and more oily aftrr that point. A dark roast (4/5) is after the second crack as well is a parisian roast (5/5), which is essentially burnt charcoal in my opinion. About the Finnish coffee habits, I think it's true that historically we've mostly drunk lighter roasts and it has started to shift somewhat to darker roasts. There are still a lot of people who prefer lighter roasts but I wouldn't clump them together by age group. Personally, I'm of the opinion that the more you roast the beans, the more you can only taste roast level and less off the actual coffee. Some coffees might reach their peak at a lighter roast, some at medium but it's all downhill after that imo. Thats not to say that darker roasts are inferior, if that's what you prefer. But if you buy expensive beans, you'll usually get a wider range of flavors out of lighter roasts. I think the reason Finns have moved a bit towards darker roasts is simply the fact that it's not what we're used to drinking and it seems "better" or more exotic to us. A reverse shift has happened in countries where darker roasts have been prevalent, for similar reasons. If you compare the normal market offerings in Finland to neighboring countries, you'll find that even the bulk juhlamokka is pretty good in comparison. I've never been a fan of robust blends in general and Paulig for example has done a pretty good job at keeping their offerings consistent over decades even. Obviously they hold no candle against 3rd wave coffee but it's not exactly bitter tar we're drinking either.
2muchcoffeeman 5y ago
The bulk blend that Finns consume in large quantities "Paulig Juhla Mokka" is made from high quality beans. I looked it up. Looks like typical super market coffee to me. Some of the big roasters produce a fairly decent blend. They use good quality arabica. These guys are probably no exception. I've had the opportunity to get bags of coffee of a couple of brands with a recent roast date. Within a one to two weeks. Perfectly good. But get those beans through normal supermarket supply chains and it doesn't matter how good the coffee was, it'll be stale and taste bad by the time you brew it. Even worse if the beans are pre-ground and vacuum packed into bricks. I'd rather drink instant.
- Nokinside 5y ago
  Yes. It's bulk coffee and cheap, not even close to best coffees you can get vacuum packed. It's still better than most bulk coffee you get from most other super markets from the rest of the world.
- paavohtl 5y ago
  The roast date is the important differentiator. Coffee from major brands (such as the aforementioned Paulig) do not include it. Rather, they have a best before date, which can be literally years after the roasting. But I guess the coffee can't get much worse after, as you said, being pre-ground and vacuum packed into a brick.
darthrupert 5y ago
Juhla Mokka is mediocre quality, cheap coffee.
anonuser123456 5y ago
>and is the finest quality (and highest caffeine content). Robusta has the highest caffeine content but is generally inferior to arabica.
quijoteuniv 5y ago
“ and is the finest quality (and highest caffeine content).” If is of the finest quality, means is arabica or other sort, which do not have the highest caffeine. Robusta type, which is cheaper to produce, has double the caffeine, (one of the reasons resist bugs) . Robusta has typically all the unwanted flavours of coffee, earthy & rubberish. Italians have traditionally added robusta to their blend for expresso shots because of the extra smack they get from the added caffeine (and probably to save money/make more money, this is my opinion)
- abakker 5y ago
  Robusta will produce a nicer crema on espresso, too.
- eurasiantiger 5y ago
  It’s not just the caffeine; Robusta and Arabica have different amounts of other psychoactives. ”Norharman and harman are formed during coffee roasting, and Robusta coffee has higher amounts than Arabica.” https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780124095175000826 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B978012409...
yason 5y ago
Finns "love" light roasts because they're accustomed to it (except many of younger generations) and why they're accustomed is supposedly because a long time ago coffee was expensive and if you roasted it only a little you would obtain more coffee when measured in plain volume―with no regard to the actual taste. I don't know how much of that is true but most typical Finnish blends are light, bland, and bitter (eventhough they're marketed as smooth...) but also cheap. The labels calling brands "finest quality" in Finland is a very relative matter: for decades the "finest" was probably something that any country with a hint of a coffee culture would've called crap. I also don't know if I'm young enough but I've always like dark roasts so the general kind doesn't even taste like coffee in my mouth. Even as recently as maybe 20 years ago there were only one or two semi-dark roasts on the market: the situation has improved remarkably, however.

paavohtl 5y ago

> Traditionally Finns love coffee that is extremely lightly roasted No, not really. It's called light roast here, but my understanding is that compared to actual light roasts (e.g speciality coffees from smaller roasters) most coffees tend be actually closer to medium or even dark roasts. Good quality light roasts taste of their origin characteristics (coffee from different places tends to taste different, who would've guessed) and they are closer to acidic than bitter.

Nokinside 5y ago
Heh. I think you go little carried out with you coffee enthusiasm. It's called light roast here and everywhere. I challenge you to find any place on earth where normal people (not coffee connoisseurs) drink lighter roast.
- paavohtl 5y ago
  I'm not claiming that people of any nation in particular drink lighter roasted coffee, or even that Finland is exceptional in this regard. It's not a competition. I'm arguing that on the whole spectrum of coffee roasting, even Finnish supposedly light roasted coffee is not very light at all.
httpsterio 5y ago
Normal light roasted juhlamokka is maybe a 2/5 roast, medium roast tends to start at 3/5. When roasting coffee, they're of course graded visually but there are two important bench marks: first and second crack. If you don't roast your coffee beyond the first crack, it's essentially still raw and unsuitable for drinking. Second crack happens later in the roast process if you keep roasting it, usually medium coffee is taken out before the second crack as it tends to get noticeably darker and more oily aftrr that point. A dark roast (4/5) is after the second crack as well is a parisian roast (5/5), which is essentially burnt charcoal in my opinion. About the Finnish coffee habits, I think it's true that historically we've mostly drunk lighter roasts and it has started to shift somewhat to darker roasts. There are still a lot of people who prefer lighter roasts but I wouldn't clump them together by age group. Personally, I'm of the opinion that the more you roast the beans, the more you can only taste roast level and less off the actual coffee. Some coffees might reach their peak at a lighter roast, some at medium but it's all downhill after that imo. Thats not to say that darker roasts are inferior, if that's what you prefer. But if you buy expensive beans, you'll usually get a wider range of flavors out of lighter roasts. I think the reason Finns have moved a bit towards darker roasts is simply the fact that it's not what we're used to drinking and it seems "better" or more exotic to us. A reverse shift has happened in countries where darker roasts have been prevalent, for similar reasons. If you compare the normal market offerings in Finland to neighboring countries, you'll find that even the bulk juhlamokka is pretty good in comparison. I've never been a fan of robust blends in general and Paulig for example has done a pretty good job at keeping their offerings consistent over decades even. Obviously they hold no candle against 3rd wave coffee but it's not exactly bitter tar we're drinking either.

2muchcoffeeman 5y ago

The bulk blend that Finns consume in large quantities "Paulig Juhla Mokka" is made from high quality beans. I looked it up. Looks like typical super market coffee to me. Some of the big roasters produce a fairly decent blend. They use good quality arabica. These guys are probably no exception. I've had the opportunity to get bags of coffee of a couple of brands with a recent roast date. Within a one to two weeks. Perfectly good. But get those beans through normal supermarket supply chains and it doesn't matter how good the coffee was, it'll be stale and taste bad by the time you brew it. Even worse if the beans are pre-ground and vacuum packed into bricks. I'd rather drink instant.

Nokinside 5y ago
Yes. It's bulk coffee and cheap, not even close to best coffees you can get vacuum packed. It's still better than most bulk coffee you get from most other super markets from the rest of the world.
paavohtl 5y ago
The roast date is the important differentiator. Coffee from major brands (such as the aforementioned Paulig) do not include it. Rather, they have a best before date, which can be literally years after the roasting. But I guess the coffee can't get much worse after, as you said, being pre-ground and vacuum packed into a brick.

darthrupert 5y ago

Juhla Mokka is mediocre quality, cheap coffee.

anonuser123456 5y ago

>and is the finest quality (and highest caffeine content). Robusta has the highest caffeine content but is generally inferior to arabica.

quijoteuniv 5y ago

“ and is the finest quality (and highest caffeine content).” If is of the finest quality, means is arabica or other sort, which do not have the highest caffeine. Robusta type, which is cheaper to produce, has double the caffeine, (one of the reasons resist bugs) . Robusta has typically all the unwanted flavours of coffee, earthy & rubberish. Italians have traditionally added robusta to their blend for expresso shots because of the extra smack they get from the added caffeine (and probably to save money/make more money, this is my opinion)

abakker 5y ago
Robusta will produce a nicer crema on espresso, too.
eurasiantiger 5y ago
It’s not just the caffeine; Robusta and Arabica have different amounts of other psychoactives. ”Norharman and harman are formed during coffee roasting, and Robusta coffee has higher amounts than Arabica.” https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780124095175000826 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B978012409...

yason 5y ago

Finns "love" light roasts because they're accustomed to it (except many of younger generations) and why they're accustomed is supposedly because a long time ago coffee was expensive and if you roasted it only a little you would obtain more coffee when measured in plain volume―with no regard to the actual taste. I don't know how much of that is true but most typical Finnish blends are light, bland, and bitter (eventhough they're marketed as smooth...) but also cheap. The labels calling brands "finest quality" in Finland is a very relative matter: for decades the "finest" was probably something that any country with a hint of a coffee culture would've called crap. I also don't know if I'm young enough but I've always like dark roasts so the general kind doesn't even taste like coffee in my mouth. Even as recently as maybe 20 years ago there were only one or two semi-dark roasts on the market: the situation has improved remarkably, however.