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> since people in my experience are extremely fussy about their brew Finns drink the most coffee per capita in the world [1] but that coffee tends to be of a p
by paavohtl 5y ago
> since people in my experience are extremely fussy about their brew
Finns drink the most coffee per capita in the world [1] but that coffee tends to be of a pretty low quality. For some people "good coffee" means it has been roasted so dark that it mostly tastes bitter and burnt. Other people don't really care what the coffee tastes like, as long as it's black (and they put so much milk in it that it mostly tastes of milk) and warm-ish. So it is entirely possible the scientists conducting this experiments aren't the best at judging the actual quality of the coffee.
[1] https://www.universitymagazine.ca/countries-that-consume-the-most-coffee-2020/ https://www.universitymagazine.ca/countries-that-consume-the...
- eurasiantiger 5y agoSince coffee contains a large amount of MAOA inhibitors, the difference in taste preference can be explained by different MAOA variable number tandem repeat genotypes in the population. From these, MAOA-LPR is the most widely studied, and has been shown to be connected to criminality and violent behavior—especially if paired with childhood maltreatment, which tends to change the activity of MAOA by methylation, which is a type of heritable epigenetic modification.
- dunefox 5y agoWhat exactly does that mean?
- eurasiantiger 5y agoWhich part? It’s very difficult to be both exact and explain neurotransmitter systems in layman’s terms. You can take any of the terms used above, even whole sentences, and enter them into Google to find further information around the subject.
- theshrike79 5y agoSo basically what you're saying that people's preference for different types of coffee depend on their genes?
- eurasiantiger 5y agoYes.
- wrycoder 5y agoThe last part of your comment stated that coffee drinking can reduce criminality in certain genotypes? If not, could you rephrase it?
- karaterobot 5y agoWhat they said was that people who exhibit criminal behavior (especially those who were maltreated as children) have a different experience tasting coffee. I don't see any claim that drinking coffee reduces criminality.
- eurasiantiger 5y agoYes, but the effect on coffee drinking preferences is not limited to those engaging in crime: plenty of ”normal” people have these gene variants, and it’s likely the criminal outcomes don’t manifest at all without childhood abuse, or they manifest in non-violent ways, e.g. white-collar crime or substance abuse.
- wrycoder 5y ago@eurasiantiger stated that studies show that MAOA-LPR has been shown to be connected [positively?] to criminality and violent behavior. I would expect that when @eurasiantiger specifically links that to MAOA inhibitors found in coffee, that means there is a linkage between coffee inhibiting MAOA and criminality in certain genotypes.
- eurasiantiger 5y agoIt was simply an expansion of that particular gene variant, but yes, I would assume there is a correlation between coffee intake and impulsive crime in some genetically predisposed subpopulations, but I cannot say whether it is linear, nonlinear or perhaps inverse. What I can definitely tell you is that there is a positive correlation between heavy coffee intake (>= 8 cups per day) and suicidality. I assume that is the result of the anxiogenic and impulsivity-increasing actions of particular Harmala alkaloids, namely harman and norharman. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1007614714579 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1007614714579
- Nokinside 5y agoTraditionally Finns love coffee that is extremely lightly roasted, and is the finest quality (and highest caffeine content). You don't find the preference for so light roasts anywhere else. The bulk blend that Finns consume in large quantities "Paulig Juhla Mokka" is made from high quality beans. Young people have started drinking more dark roasted blends, similar to coffees in Sweden and rest of the Europe. Swedish coffee taste is completely different. Dark roast all over.
- paavohtl 5y ago> Traditionally Finns love coffee that is extremely lightly roasted No, not really. It's called light roast here, but my understanding is that compared to actual light roasts (e.g speciality coffees from smaller roasters) most coffees tend be actually closer to medium or even dark roasts. Good quality light roasts taste of their origin characteristics (coffee from different places tends to taste different, who would've guessed) and they are closer to acidic than bitter.
- Nokinside 5y agoHeh. I think you go little carried out with you coffee enthusiasm. It's called light roast here and everywhere. I challenge you to find any place on earth where normal people (not coffee connoisseurs) drink lighter roast.
- paavohtl 5y agoI'm not claiming that people of any nation in particular drink lighter roasted coffee, or even that Finland is exceptional in this regard. It's not a competition. I'm arguing that on the whole spectrum of coffee roasting, even Finnish supposedly light roasted coffee is not very light at all.
- httpsterio 5y agoNormal light roasted juhlamokka is maybe a 2/5 roast, medium roast tends to start at 3/5. When roasting coffee, they're of course graded visually but there are two important bench marks: first and second crack. If you don't roast your coffee beyond the first crack, it's essentially still raw and unsuitable for drinking. Second crack happens later in the roast process if you keep roasting it, usually medium coffee is taken out before the second crack as it tends to get noticeably darker and more oily aftrr that point. A dark roast (4/5) is after the second crack as well is a parisian roast (5/5), which is essentially burnt charcoal in my opinion. About the Finnish coffee habits, I think it's true that historically we've mostly drunk lighter roasts and it has started to shift somewhat to darker roasts. There are still a lot of people who prefer lighter roasts but I wouldn't clump them together by age group. Personally, I'm of the opinion that the more you roast the beans, the more you can only taste roast level and less off the actual coffee. Some coffees might reach their peak at a lighter roast, some at medium but it's all downhill after that imo. Thats not to say that darker roasts are inferior, if that's what you prefer. But if you buy expensive beans, you'll usually get a wider range of flavors out of lighter roasts. I think the reason Finns have moved a bit towards darker roasts is simply the fact that it's not what we're used to drinking and it seems "better" or more exotic to us. A reverse shift has happened in countries where darker roasts have been prevalent, for similar reasons. If you compare the normal market offerings in Finland to neighboring countries, you'll find that even the bulk juhlamokka is pretty good in comparison. I've never been a fan of robust blends in general and Paulig for example has done a pretty good job at keeping their offerings consistent over decades even. Obviously they hold no candle against 3rd wave coffee but it's not exactly bitter tar we're drinking either.
- snemvalts 5y agoI've started to move from pre-ground Paulig (finnish brand) to grinding my own beans. Just while reading this post, drinking the left-over Paulig made me wonder if I have COVID. Very little smell and taste compared to freshly ground Italian beans, made even worse by the oxidation.
- aaron_m04 5y agoI'm not sure if you were serious, but losing your sense of smell due to COVID-19 is like turning off a light with a light switch -- it was everything, all at once, at least for me.
- mkr-hn 5y agoI think it's because coffee is counterintuitive. People assume a darker roast means stronger coffee (caffeine-wise) when it's the opposite.
- eurasiantiger 5y agoBut it might actually be stronger coffee MAOI-wise.
- darthrupert 5y agoYep. It's just feeding the addiction. We're a nation of drug addicts. Funnily enough, mention the prospect of legal cannabis and everybody goes berserk.
- wrycoder 5y agoCoffee won’t give you lung cancer.
- chownie 5y agoNeither will cannabis. The consumption method is fully up to user choice and in areas where it's legalized edibles are commonplace.
- timonoko 5y agoI started drinking coffee only in Mexico. It tasted less bitter than Finnish coffee and did not cause stomach problems. I do not remember the brand, but "ESTO SUAVE" was the blurb.