3 ms·

Instead of using the Edison device, as far as I understand, Theranos performed blood testing using traditional providers but hid this fact from investors. FSD,

Instead of using the Edison device, as far as I understand, Theranos performed blood testing using traditional providers but hid this fact from investors. FSD, on the other hand, is something 3rd parties can evaluate on their own, the flaws are there for all to see. Hype, while not always okay, isn't fraud.

bumby 5y ago
>Hype, while not always okay, isn't fraud. There is a legal concept of “theft by false promises” though. I don’t know where the line is drawn between that and “hype”.
- clouddrover 5y ago
  In 2016 Tesla falsely claimed that all Tesla vehicles being produced had the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver: https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-tesla-cars-being-produced-now-have-full-self-driving-hardware https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-tesla-cars-being-produced-now... It doesn't seem to have hurt Tesla so far. People are still spending money on the undelivered promise of full self driving.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - scoopertrooper 5y ago
    Not fraud if they give you a free upgrade to more capable hardware. https://www.tesla.com/support/full-self-driving-computer https://www.tesla.com/support/full-self-driving-computer
    - clouddrover 5y ago
      A free upgrade to hardware that's still not capable of full self driving. Tesla promised that full autonomy will enable a Tesla to be substantially safer than a human driver, lower the financial cost of transportation for those who own a car and provide low-cost on-demand mobility for those who do not. When will Tesla deliver what was paid for?
    - bumby 5y ago
      I don’t know that I agree, especially if you used the previous software in a way that caused real harm or loss. Imagine you were a financial consulting firm and I sold you software that guaranteed that you could make 20% per year every year for your clients. But, oops, my software couldn’t do that initially and you lost millions of dollars, garnered a bad reputation, etc. Would it be okay if I eventually delivered an update that fulfilled that promise at a later date?
    - sidibe 5y ago
      What if they don't deliver over the entire lifetime of the car (very likely)?
    - yawaworht1978 5y ago
      Well, but where is the software? What is the cut off point for those who believe in musk's empty promises? 2 years? 5? What if it doesn't materialize and the first car nears end of life? Is the "ownership" transferable? At what point can someone say "not delivered as promised"? It seems like Tesla is investing more on promotion and marketing than the right thing, while others simply work on a solution silently. Wouldn't be surprised if Tesla won't be the first to market with fsd.
- moffkalast 5y ago
  Tell me the difference between fraud and hype and I'll have the games industry arrested.
  - bumby 5y ago
    I know the question was rhetorical, I think the case is made easier when one can point to a realized loss in terms of property, money, life/limb etc. I think there’s a much straighter line to than regarding safety critical software than gaming

bumby 5y ago

>Hype, while not always okay, isn't fraud. There is a legal concept of “theft by false promises” though. I don’t know where the line is drawn between that and “hype”.

clouddrover 5y ago
In 2016 Tesla falsely claimed that all Tesla vehicles being produced had the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver: https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-tesla-cars-being-produced-now-have-full-self-driving-hardware https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-tesla-cars-being-produced-now... It doesn't seem to have hurt Tesla so far. People are still spending money on the undelivered promise of full self driving.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- scoopertrooper 5y ago
  Not fraud if they give you a free upgrade to more capable hardware. https://www.tesla.com/support/full-self-driving-computer https://www.tesla.com/support/full-self-driving-computer
  - clouddrover 5y ago
    A free upgrade to hardware that's still not capable of full self driving. Tesla promised that full autonomy will enable a Tesla to be substantially safer than a human driver, lower the financial cost of transportation for those who own a car and provide low-cost on-demand mobility for those who do not. When will Tesla deliver what was paid for?
  - bumby 5y ago
    I don’t know that I agree, especially if you used the previous software in a way that caused real harm or loss. Imagine you were a financial consulting firm and I sold you software that guaranteed that you could make 20% per year every year for your clients. But, oops, my software couldn’t do that initially and you lost millions of dollars, garnered a bad reputation, etc. Would it be okay if I eventually delivered an update that fulfilled that promise at a later date?
  - sidibe 5y ago
    What if they don't deliver over the entire lifetime of the car (very likely)?
  - yawaworht1978 5y ago
    Well, but where is the software? What is the cut off point for those who believe in musk's empty promises? 2 years? 5? What if it doesn't materialize and the first car nears end of life? Is the "ownership" transferable? At what point can someone say "not delivered as promised"? It seems like Tesla is investing more on promotion and marketing than the right thing, while others simply work on a solution silently. Wouldn't be surprised if Tesla won't be the first to market with fsd.
moffkalast 5y ago
Tell me the difference between fraud and hype and I'll have the games industry arrested.
- bumby 5y ago
  I know the question was rhetorical, I think the case is made easier when one can point to a realized loss in terms of property, money, life/limb etc. I think there’s a much straighter line to than regarding safety critical software than gaming