5 ms·

I'll play devil's advocate. Your marriage doesn't sound like one of equals. You're doing a Masters while working full time I imagine. So who picks up the slack

by nvarsj 5y ago

I'll play devil's advocate. Your marriage doesn't sound like one of equals. You're doing a Masters while working full time I imagine. So who picks up the slack for household management? I'm guessing your wife. If you have kids, then it is even more unbalanced I imagine. I know people in similar marriages - it works great, as long as the spouse is happy being the dutiful house wife. But I also know people in this situation who are now separated - usually the man/provider is completely blind sided when their ever loving, house wife says one day "no" and just walks out. They had no idea there was an inequality in the first place, and assumed their spouse is happy like this. I personally believe that when marrying someone, "marry your equal" is incredibly important advice. Marry someone of similar earning power, with similar career and life accomplishments. This helps ensures a equal relationship that has the greatest chance of success.

watwut 5y ago
I know women in marriages you have in mind who, after they felt closed to me opened up and turned out they were super unhappy. They stay because of kids and because the have some feelings for husband still. But they don't like that and have a lot of resentment. But, it does not necessary describes his situation. It sounds like two people with different initial interests.
- paulryanrogers 5y ago
  I've known some husbands in marriages who resent that they're expected to do half the housework and child rearing with a full time job when the spouse has no formal employment. Kids take a huge amount of time, and the pandemic has limited school and daycare choices for many. Still, kids become gradually more independent. And some housework can be outsourced (landscaping, no yard, surface cleaning). A career in the marketplace is often 40+ years before reaching retirement or financial independence.
  - watwut 5y ago
    I don't know any couple where husband would do half child caring while woman has no job. Like, not a single one. I do know couples with various splits including husband doing more. But this particular scenario, not really. > Kids take a huge amount of time, and the pandemic has limited school and daycare choices for many. I know couples that split it and the ones where it falls on woman. I know couples where women are resentful that work sacrifice is disproportionately on them. Women who would prefer job. And woman being intentionally at home and wanting it so. But like, only husband being employed and he doing half homeschooling is something I did not seen.
    - paulryanrogers 5y ago
      We all have different circles. My point was less about the gender and more that some partners (at least those IME) have unrealistic expectations. They may also not consider the quantity of work the other side is putting in over the years.
  - two_dimes 5y ago
    If neither the wife nor children have any disabilities, none of the children are in a high achieving sport or similar and the children are of schooling age the husbands’ resentment is fully justified.
michaelt 5y ago
Seems kinda unromantic to say that, just because I'm a millionaire with a PhD, I can't fall in love with 99% of the population.
- defterGoose 5y ago
  This. Part of the thing that makes for a good marriage mindset is just being willing/able to find/recognize the humanity in another.
nkrisc 5y ago
Why is equality determined by educational attainment? Seems to be the measure of “equality” for purposes of a romantic marriage should be personality and compatibility and not wealth or degrees earned. An equal relationship is going to vary depending on who you ask, and as long as both partners agree, then you’re set.
- watwut 5y ago
  I think that the comment was talking about raw amount of hours full time job + school takes. Which means there is very little remaining time for household chores (including kids and pets) meaning partner has to do almost all of them. It was not about educational attainment, but about assumed silent expectation that partner does all the housework.
  - balfirevic 5y ago
    If only one partner is working full time, how is it not equal (and expected) that the other does the housework?
    - watwut 5y ago
      You are changing premise. Just like the person I am responding to changed premise from "partner does all boring stuff" into "education level". The original comment and rwsponse were neither about stay at home wife nor about educational differences.
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    Let’s imagine there are 6 hours of housework to do daily. Only one partner is working on an income-generating job. Do they then come home and do “their fair share” of 3 hours of housework as well? The benefits of the income are shared with the entire household and represent their contribution. It seems reasonable for the other partner to shoulder most of the housework (the benefits of which are also shared with the entire household). The opposite is what would seem unreasonable to me. For clarity, I’m not saying the employed partner never has to wash a dish or put their dirty socks in the basket.
ironmagma 5y ago
There are no real equals in life; everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses. Even trying to estimate whether your partner is equal to you is a kind of competitive spirit which isn’t really healthy IMO.
LMYahooTFY 5y ago
>Your marriage doesn't sound like one of equals. You're doing a Masters while working full time I imagine. So who picks up the slack for household management? I'm guessing your wife. If you have kids, then it is even more unbalanced I imagine. You confuse 'equality' for 'symmetry', and this is extremely flawed. Even in non-romantic teams, the entire purpose of cooperation is to perform different roles in parallel. This is fundamental to human existence. >I know people in similar marriages - it works great, as long as the spouse is happy being the dutiful house wife. But I also know people in this situation who are now separated - usually the man/provider is completely blind sided when their ever loving, house wife says one day "no" and just walks out. They had no idea there was an inequality in the first place, and assumed their spouse is happy like this. ....and as long as the husband is happy being a dutiful provider. Getting blind sided by a partner suddenly walking out? They assumed their partner was happy? This is almost a parody of a bad marriage. >I personally believe that when marrying someone, "marry your equal" is incredibly important advice. Marry someone of similar earning power, with similar career and life accomplishments. This helps ensures a equal relationship that has the greatest chance of success. IMO, this doesn't address the nightmare scenario you described in your second paragraph, and sounds more likely to make you vulnerable to it. If you got blind sided by your partner because the two of you were 'assuming the other was happy', you started deeply fucking up years ago and making sure your partner was a close rival in earning career progression had almost nothing to do with it.
xyzelement 5y ago
> You're doing a Masters while working full time I imagine. So who picks up the slack for household management? I'm guessing your wife. If you have kids, then it is even more unbalanced One could just as well find inequality the other way - that the poster is going above and beyond to improve the family's financial situation. The point being - who cares? If the division of labor works for them, amazing. My wife probably spends more time with the kid than I do, I definitely spend more time fixing shit around the house. I, my wife, the kid, and the house are all better off with this situation than any other combination, nobody is walking out. Maybe the house.
xyzelement 5y ago
> "marry your equal" is incredibly important advice. Marry someone of similar earning power, with similar career and life accomplishments. This helps ensures a equal relationship that has the greatest chance of success. Eh. You should marry someone you love and respect, but you are defining "equal" like "clone." Personally, I am driven by knowledge, growth, ambition, etc. I used to think these are my values and looked for the same in women I dated. So I ended up dating a bunch of CEOs, a famous professor, etc. But while it was very interesting, it wasn't additive. The woman I actually married is no slouch in earning and intelligence but the things she values are very different from mine. She values creating a home, family connections etc in a way that I didn't know to, but benefit from. It does mean we have a different natural division of labor at home etc but the bigger deal is that we both bring a lot that the other person needs to the table. Life is not without it's conflicts but it's working out much better than if I was stuck with another me
eric_cc 5y ago
> "marry your equal" Sorry but this is incredibly stupid advice. There are no magical formulas or flow charts for who to marry.
- two_dimes 5y ago
  That’s true. It depends on what you’re willing to give and take. On your values and vision of life with your partner. I’ve met plenty of guys without a degree who were very intelligent and could talk about the ways of the world and their jobs. And degree holders who couldn’t’ even explain their own subject. 'Equal' in the sense of outlook is fair but you cant judge a person by external metrics.
qwertywert_ 5y ago
Sounds like they were blindsided because they were too focused on work? And poor communication in the relationship. It sounds like you think 2 workaholics make a better marriage because they are both "accomplished" and both focused on work, also sounds elitist.

by nvarsj 5y ago

watwut 5y ago

I know women in marriages you have in mind who, after they felt closed to me opened up and turned out they were super unhappy. They stay because of kids and because the have some feelings for husband still. But they don't like that and have a lot of resentment. But, it does not necessary describes his situation. It sounds like two people with different initial interests.

paulryanrogers 5y ago
I've known some husbands in marriages who resent that they're expected to do half the housework and child rearing with a full time job when the spouse has no formal employment. Kids take a huge amount of time, and the pandemic has limited school and daycare choices for many. Still, kids become gradually more independent. And some housework can be outsourced (landscaping, no yard, surface cleaning). A career in the marketplace is often 40+ years before reaching retirement or financial independence.
- watwut 5y ago
  I don't know any couple where husband would do half child caring while woman has no job. Like, not a single one. I do know couples with various splits including husband doing more. But this particular scenario, not really. > Kids take a huge amount of time, and the pandemic has limited school and daycare choices for many. I know couples that split it and the ones where it falls on woman. I know couples where women are resentful that work sacrifice is disproportionately on them. Women who would prefer job. And woman being intentionally at home and wanting it so. But like, only husband being employed and he doing half homeschooling is something I did not seen.
  - paulryanrogers 5y ago
    We all have different circles. My point was less about the gender and more that some partners (at least those IME) have unrealistic expectations. They may also not consider the quantity of work the other side is putting in over the years.
- two_dimes 5y ago
  If neither the wife nor children have any disabilities, none of the children are in a high achieving sport or similar and the children are of schooling age the husbands’ resentment is fully justified.

michaelt 5y ago

Seems kinda unromantic to say that, just because I'm a millionaire with a PhD, I can't fall in love with 99% of the population.

defterGoose 5y ago
This. Part of the thing that makes for a good marriage mindset is just being willing/able to find/recognize the humanity in another.

nkrisc 5y ago

Why is equality determined by educational attainment? Seems to be the measure of “equality” for purposes of a romantic marriage should be personality and compatibility and not wealth or degrees earned. An equal relationship is going to vary depending on who you ask, and as long as both partners agree, then you’re set.

watwut 5y ago
I think that the comment was talking about raw amount of hours full time job + school takes. Which means there is very little remaining time for household chores (including kids and pets) meaning partner has to do almost all of them. It was not about educational attainment, but about assumed silent expectation that partner does all the housework.
- balfirevic 5y ago
  If only one partner is working full time, how is it not equal (and expected) that the other does the housework?
  - watwut 5y ago
    You are changing premise. Just like the person I am responding to changed premise from "partner does all boring stuff" into "education level". The original comment and rwsponse were neither about stay at home wife nor about educational differences.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  Let’s imagine there are 6 hours of housework to do daily. Only one partner is working on an income-generating job. Do they then come home and do “their fair share” of 3 hours of housework as well? The benefits of the income are shared with the entire household and represent their contribution. It seems reasonable for the other partner to shoulder most of the housework (the benefits of which are also shared with the entire household). The opposite is what would seem unreasonable to me. For clarity, I’m not saying the employed partner never has to wash a dish or put their dirty socks in the basket.

ironmagma 5y ago

There are no real equals in life; everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses. Even trying to estimate whether your partner is equal to you is a kind of competitive spirit which isn’t really healthy IMO.

LMYahooTFY 5y ago

>Your marriage doesn't sound like one of equals. You're doing a Masters while working full time I imagine. So who picks up the slack for household management? I'm guessing your wife. If you have kids, then it is even more unbalanced I imagine. You confuse 'equality' for 'symmetry', and this is extremely flawed. Even in non-romantic teams, the entire purpose of cooperation is to perform different roles in parallel. This is fundamental to human existence. >I know people in similar marriages - it works great, as long as the spouse is happy being the dutiful house wife. But I also know people in this situation who are now separated - usually the man/provider is completely blind sided when their ever loving, house wife says one day "no" and just walks out. They had no idea there was an inequality in the first place, and assumed their spouse is happy like this. ....and as long as the husband is happy being a dutiful provider. Getting blind sided by a partner suddenly walking out? They assumed their partner was happy? This is almost a parody of a bad marriage. >I personally believe that when marrying someone, "marry your equal" is incredibly important advice. Marry someone of similar earning power, with similar career and life accomplishments. This helps ensures a equal relationship that has the greatest chance of success. IMO, this doesn't address the nightmare scenario you described in your second paragraph, and sounds more likely to make you vulnerable to it. If you got blind sided by your partner because the two of you were 'assuming the other was happy', you started deeply fucking up years ago and making sure your partner was a close rival in earning career progression had almost nothing to do with it.

xyzelement 5y ago

> You're doing a Masters while working full time I imagine. So who picks up the slack for household management? I'm guessing your wife. If you have kids, then it is even more unbalanced One could just as well find inequality the other way - that the poster is going above and beyond to improve the family's financial situation. The point being - who cares? If the division of labor works for them, amazing. My wife probably spends more time with the kid than I do, I definitely spend more time fixing shit around the house. I, my wife, the kid, and the house are all better off with this situation than any other combination, nobody is walking out. Maybe the house.

xyzelement 5y ago

> "marry your equal" is incredibly important advice. Marry someone of similar earning power, with similar career and life accomplishments. This helps ensures a equal relationship that has the greatest chance of success. Eh. You should marry someone you love and respect, but you are defining "equal" like "clone." Personally, I am driven by knowledge, growth, ambition, etc. I used to think these are my values and looked for the same in women I dated. So I ended up dating a bunch of CEOs, a famous professor, etc. But while it was very interesting, it wasn't additive. The woman I actually married is no slouch in earning and intelligence but the things she values are very different from mine. She values creating a home, family connections etc in a way that I didn't know to, but benefit from. It does mean we have a different natural division of labor at home etc but the bigger deal is that we both bring a lot that the other person needs to the table. Life is not without it's conflicts but it's working out much better than if I was stuck with another me

eric_cc 5y ago

> "marry your equal" Sorry but this is incredibly stupid advice. There are no magical formulas or flow charts for who to marry.

two_dimes 5y ago
That’s true. It depends on what you’re willing to give and take. On your values and vision of life with your partner. I’ve met plenty of guys without a degree who were very intelligent and could talk about the ways of the world and their jobs. And degree holders who couldn’t’ even explain their own subject. 'Equal' in the sense of outlook is fair but you cant judge a person by external metrics.

qwertywert_ 5y ago

Sounds like they were blindsided because they were too focused on work? And poor communication in the relationship. It sounds like you think 2 workaholics make a better marriage because they are both "accomplished" and both focused on work, also sounds elitist.