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In previous threads I haven't seen an in-depth discussion of algebraic effects as a solution to this problem, i.e. composing arbitrarily-many 'red' functions. T

In previous threads I haven't seen an in-depth discussion of algebraic effects as a solution to this problem, i.e. composing arbitrarily-many 'red' functions. Thoughts?

skybrian 5y ago
The danger is that declaring too much at the API boundary makes the problem worse. Declared effects result in more ways that API’s can be incompatible and fewer ways that an implementation can change without breaking compatibility.
Ezku 5y ago
I’m thinking your reference to composing red functions doesn’t seem congruent with your desire to discuss algebraic effects. Composing arbitrarily many red functions, or blue functions, is a solved problem. (I won’t mention the lingo knowing many in the audience to be allergic.) Composing functions with heterogenous, or completely arbitrary, colors is much less so. That’s what the article is about, too, is it not - combining blue and red? But I might well be missing something deeper here, perhaps you’ll enlighten the reader :) I would be really keen on seeing a mainstream-ish language that does algebraic effects or that can even implement them in a legitimate sense (discounting React’s implementation here, for instance). Purescript tried, but are doing something different these days. https://purescript-resources.readthedocs.io/en/latest/eff-to-effect.html https://purescript-resources.readthedocs.io/en/latest/eff-to...
- isaacimagine 5y ago
  By 'red' I was referring to anything effectful, whether that be concurrency, IO, state, or otherwise. Composing any one effect is a solved problem (e.g. monad); composing arbitrarily many effects is a lot harder. Recent languages like Koka describe effects over the free monad; because they are described over a single monad, and this single monad composes, effects compose. I am by no means an expert in this area, but I hope this clarifies the intent of my original comment. What transformations and/or constraints exist for composable heterogeneous effects? Koka: http://koka-lang.org/ http://koka-lang.org/

In previous threads I haven't seen an in-depth discussion of algebraic effects as a solution to this problem, i.e. composing arbitrarily-many 'red' functions. Thoughts?

skybrian 5y ago

The danger is that declaring too much at the API boundary makes the problem worse. Declared effects result in more ways that API’s can be incompatible and fewer ways that an implementation can change without breaking compatibility.

Ezku 5y ago

I’m thinking your reference to composing red functions doesn’t seem congruent with your desire to discuss algebraic effects. Composing arbitrarily many red functions, or blue functions, is a solved problem. (I won’t mention the lingo knowing many in the audience to be allergic.) Composing functions with heterogenous, or completely arbitrary, colors is much less so. That’s what the article is about, too, is it not - combining blue and red? But I might well be missing something deeper here, perhaps you’ll enlighten the reader :) I would be really keen on seeing a mainstream-ish language that does algebraic effects or that can even implement them in a legitimate sense (discounting React’s implementation here, for instance). Purescript tried, but are doing something different these days. https://purescript-resources.readthedocs.io/en/latest/eff-to-effect.html https://purescript-resources.readthedocs.io/en/latest/eff-to...

isaacimagine 5y ago
By 'red' I was referring to anything effectful, whether that be concurrency, IO, state, or otherwise. Composing any one effect is a solved problem (e.g. monad); composing arbitrarily many effects is a lot harder. Recent languages like Koka describe effects over the free monad; because they are described over a single monad, and this single monad composes, effects compose. I am by no means an expert in this area, but I hope this clarifies the intent of my original comment. What transformations and/or constraints exist for composable heterogeneous effects? Koka: http://koka-lang.org/ http://koka-lang.org/