5 ms·

The vast majority of firearms that are used in crimes are obtained illegally, and thus will not be subject to these lists. The data on this is widely available

The vast majority of firearms that are used in crimes are obtained illegally, and thus will not be subject to these lists. The data on this is widely available. This legislation is purely a punitive political measure.

loeg 5y ago
Illegal guns are former legal guns. S&W doesn't run a factory that only sells to criminals -- those legal guns are diverted to criminals, via the generally lax attitudes of American gun owners.
- chroem- 5y ago
  And there will certainly be a great influx of illegal guns once you provide thieves with a state-compiled shopping list of where to find them.
  - CompanionCubee 5y ago
    But that will only justify more gun control measures. It's a win-win for them.
- jacobolus 5y ago
  Indeed. If every gun were registered, and the gun owner (or gun store, or gun manufacturer, whoever last had the registration) faced personal financial/criminal liability when one of their registered guns was used improperly, it would make people take their guns a lot more seriously.
  - LinuxBender 5y ago
    This is already a thing. I had a rifle stolen some time ago. Shortly thereafter shootings occurred on a freeway nearby with a rifle with the exact caliber as mine. The ATF and DEA were at my house for a chat. Luckily for me, the person that stole my rifle was caught and imprisoned and forensics verified that my firearm did not match the one used in the shooting. I was also lucky I saved the docket number from the Sheriff when I reported it stolen. I have since left California and moved to a state where everyone is heavily armed. Now my rifles are pea-shooters in comparison to what everyone else around me has. Firearm crime is a very rare occurrence here.
    - sgc 5y ago
      If you are attempting to say that stricter guns laws lead to more firearm deaths, you would be quite wrong. California has one of the lowest rates per capita in the US. This law needs some improvements for sure, but here are the CDC stats for the lowest 10 states (columns are deaths, population, and rate per 100k): Delaware (10) 93 973,764 9.6 Iowa (19) 294 3,155,070 9.3 Minnesota (27) 465 5,639,632 8.2 California (06) 2,945 39,512,223 7.5 Connecticut (09) 190 3,565,287 5.3 Rhode Island (44) 48 1,059,361 4.5 Hawaii (15) 62 1,415,872 4.4 New Jersey (34) 368 8,882,190 4.1 New York (36) 804 19,453,561 4.1 Massachusetts (25) 247 6,892,503 3.6 From http://wonder.cdc.gov/ucd-icd10.html http://wonder.cdc.gov/ucd-icd10.html
      - LinuxBender 5y ago
        I don't count suicides. My state has a high alcohol consumption rate and high suicide rate (loneliness). Including only homicide, california is 3.19 per 100k and my state is 2.51 per 100k. Sadly I can't get it to drill down to my county. They also do not include justifiable homicide as a data point.
        sgc 5y ago
        Everybody else counts suicides. Also, not knowing your state I am willing bet there are confounding factors. The vast majority of firearm homicides are in urban areas. I am not going to be able to get the exact same figure as you since the way the search form is set up it is pretty easy to get slightly different numbers. But the only state from the last 3 years of data that would seem to fit your comment is Minnesota. Obviously if you move away from some of the largest metropolitan areas in the US crime rate goes down. But that does not even matter. California still falls in the bottom 8 states despite having several large, difficult metro areas, and the highest percentage of its population living in urban areas of any state, at 95%. In contrast, Minnesota is at 17th, with 73.3%.

loeg 5y ago

Illegal guns are former legal guns. S&W doesn't run a factory that only sells to criminals -- those legal guns are diverted to criminals, via the generally lax attitudes of American gun owners.

chroem- 5y ago
And there will certainly be a great influx of illegal guns once you provide thieves with a state-compiled shopping list of where to find them.
- CompanionCubee 5y ago
  But that will only justify more gun control measures. It's a win-win for them.
jacobolus 5y ago
Indeed. If every gun were registered, and the gun owner (or gun store, or gun manufacturer, whoever last had the registration) faced personal financial/criminal liability when one of their registered guns was used improperly, it would make people take their guns a lot more seriously.
- LinuxBender 5y ago
  This is already a thing. I had a rifle stolen some time ago. Shortly thereafter shootings occurred on a freeway nearby with a rifle with the exact caliber as mine. The ATF and DEA were at my house for a chat. Luckily for me, the person that stole my rifle was caught and imprisoned and forensics verified that my firearm did not match the one used in the shooting. I was also lucky I saved the docket number from the Sheriff when I reported it stolen. I have since left California and moved to a state where everyone is heavily armed. Now my rifles are pea-shooters in comparison to what everyone else around me has. Firearm crime is a very rare occurrence here.
  - sgc 5y ago
    If you are attempting to say that stricter guns laws lead to more firearm deaths, you would be quite wrong. California has one of the lowest rates per capita in the US. This law needs some improvements for sure, but here are the CDC stats for the lowest 10 states (columns are deaths, population, and rate per 100k): Delaware (10) 93 973,764 9.6 Iowa (19) 294 3,155,070 9.3 Minnesota (27) 465 5,639,632 8.2 California (06) 2,945 39,512,223 7.5 Connecticut (09) 190 3,565,287 5.3 Rhode Island (44) 48 1,059,361 4.5 Hawaii (15) 62 1,415,872 4.4 New Jersey (34) 368 8,882,190 4.1 New York (36) 804 19,453,561 4.1 Massachusetts (25) 247 6,892,503 3.6 From http://wonder.cdc.gov/ucd-icd10.html http://wonder.cdc.gov/ucd-icd10.html
    - LinuxBender 5y ago
      I don't count suicides. My state has a high alcohol consumption rate and high suicide rate (loneliness). Including only homicide, california is 3.19 per 100k and my state is 2.51 per 100k. Sadly I can't get it to drill down to my county. They also do not include justifiable homicide as a data point.
      - sgc 5y ago
        Everybody else counts suicides. Also, not knowing your state I am willing bet there are confounding factors. The vast majority of firearm homicides are in urban areas. I am not going to be able to get the exact same figure as you since the way the search form is set up it is pretty easy to get slightly different numbers. But the only state from the last 3 years of data that would seem to fit your comment is Minnesota. Obviously if you move away from some of the largest metropolitan areas in the US crime rate goes down. But that does not even matter. California still falls in the bottom 8 states despite having several large, difficult metro areas, and the highest percentage of its population living in urban areas of any state, at 95%. In contrast, Minnesota is at 17th, with 73.3%.