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> There is no effort we can put in. Well, that's not quite true. I'm an atheist, and I run a weekly Bible study (which has lately morphed into more of a gene

by lisper 5y ago

> There is no effort we can put in. Well, that's not quite true. I'm an atheist, and I run a weekly Bible study (which has lately morphed into more of a general theological/philosophical study and discussion group) [1]. Religious traditions are worth studying even if you don't believe in them, if for no other reason, than as a way of better understanding the thought processes of people who do believe in them. [1] https://www.meetup.com/Bible-Study-for-Skeptics-Agnostics-and-Apologists/ https://www.meetup.com/Bible-Study-for-Skeptics-Agnostics-an...

smackeyacky 5y ago
That's not what I meant - I meant that there is no effort that I can put in that would turn me into a deist.
- lisper 5y ago
  How do you know? Maybe if you studied the Bible you'd end up believing in it. :-) It turns out that you actually can induce subjective experiences in yourself that I believe are similar to what religious people describe as "feeling the presence of God". It's an interesting and worthwhile exercise (though not what we do in my study group, that's a more academic format). But it's worth doing at least once in your life. It actually feels pretty good, not unlike taking certain psychoactive drugs.
  - paulryanrogers 5y ago
    After 20y of trying I'm done with mass hysteria, "you're holding it wrong", survivorship bias, and magical thinking. Give me consistently repeatable, experimental evidence.
  - smackeyacky 5y ago
    Like a lot of atheists, I have studied the bible. My parents had me confirmed as an Anglican in my teens (ironically one of the first steps that took me from "I don't know if this is true" to "this particular religion is patently false"). It's impossible to understand western literature without a decent working knowledge of the bible (although choosing which one is problematic in itself), it's useful for that alone. However, studying the bible made me less religious, not more.
    - lisper 5y ago
      > studying the bible made me less religious, not more. Yep, same here.
- mionhe 5y ago
  Erm, the only way to know that is to put every effort you can into becoming a deist. "Every effort" is a lifetime of work, so you haven't done that, which makes your statement a statement of faith. It sounds like you've already decided that you will never be a deist, and so you never will. How is that different from religious belief?
  - smackeyacky 5y ago
    It's different because there is one less thing I have to invent. You might as well ask somebody to believe in a giant hamburger that circumnavigates the earth that only the truly faithful can see. I know you don't see the giant hamburger because you just haven't tried hard enough.
dqv 5y ago
Is this going to eventually be meeting in person or will it be online from here on out?
- lisper 5y ago
  It started as an in-person meetup and moved on-line because covid. We now have more out-of-town members than in-town so it will probably be on-line forever. We may have the occasional in-person get-together, but I doubt it will ever go back to being regularly in-person.
deleted 5y ago
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by lisper 5y ago

smackeyacky 5y ago

That's not what I meant - I meant that there is no effort that I can put in that would turn me into a deist.

lisper 5y ago
How do you know? Maybe if you studied the Bible you'd end up believing in it. :-) It turns out that you actually can induce subjective experiences in yourself that I believe are similar to what religious people describe as "feeling the presence of God". It's an interesting and worthwhile exercise (though not what we do in my study group, that's a more academic format). But it's worth doing at least once in your life. It actually feels pretty good, not unlike taking certain psychoactive drugs.
- paulryanrogers 5y ago
  After 20y of trying I'm done with mass hysteria, "you're holding it wrong", survivorship bias, and magical thinking. Give me consistently repeatable, experimental evidence.
- smackeyacky 5y ago
  Like a lot of atheists, I have studied the bible. My parents had me confirmed as an Anglican in my teens (ironically one of the first steps that took me from "I don't know if this is true" to "this particular religion is patently false"). It's impossible to understand western literature without a decent working knowledge of the bible (although choosing which one is problematic in itself), it's useful for that alone. However, studying the bible made me less religious, not more.
  - lisper 5y ago
    > studying the bible made me less religious, not more. Yep, same here.
mionhe 5y ago
Erm, the only way to know that is to put every effort you can into becoming a deist. "Every effort" is a lifetime of work, so you haven't done that, which makes your statement a statement of faith. It sounds like you've already decided that you will never be a deist, and so you never will. How is that different from religious belief?
- smackeyacky 5y ago
  It's different because there is one less thing I have to invent. You might as well ask somebody to believe in a giant hamburger that circumnavigates the earth that only the truly faithful can see. I know you don't see the giant hamburger because you just haven't tried hard enough.

dqv 5y ago

Is this going to eventually be meeting in person or will it be online from here on out?

lisper 5y ago
It started as an in-person meetup and moved on-line because covid. We now have more out-of-town members than in-town so it will probably be on-line forever. We may have the occasional in-person get-together, but I doubt it will ever go back to being regularly in-person.

deleted 5y ago

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