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> The study also doesn’t clarify how a progenitor of the virus could have travelled to Wuhan, in central China, where the first known cases of COVID-19 were ide
by danw1979 5y ago
> The study also doesn’t clarify how a progenitor of the virus could have travelled to Wuhan, in central China, where the first known cases of COVID-19 were identified — or whether the virus hitched a ride on an intermediate animal.
“The main problems that the Institute of Virology has is that the outbreak occurred in close proximity to that Institute. That Institute has in essence the best collection of virologists in the world that have gone out and sought out, and isolated, and sampled bat species throughout Southeast Asia. So they have a very large collection of viruses in their laboratory. And so it’s — you know — proximity is a problem. It’s a problem.” - Ralph Baric
(https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/coronavirus-lab-escape-theory.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/coronavirus-lab-esca...)
- lubos 5y agoThey could have been infected by locals in regions they've been travelling to. Many possibilities. Why do we have to speculate? Let's just wait for more data. The timeline of HIV pandemic has been established decades after pandemic started. This will take time. I'd assume that virus originating anywhere in SEA region would be detected in China first. Just like many other viruses originating in America continent would be first detected in USA.
- cm2187 5y agoWe may have to wait for the fall of chinese communism to know what happened though, like for Katyn. Might take a few decades. And assuming the chinese haven't destroyed the relevant Wuhan lab samples. That's what I would do in their place. Better never know than take the risk that a technician leak such sensitive information.
- inter_netuser 5y agoSoviets had a number of either accidents or sabotage incidents with lethal biological agents. Afaik, there was zero additional clarity around those after USSR dissolved, so don't hold your breath.
- T-A 5y agohttps://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/11/sverdlovsk-russia-anthrax/508139/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/11/sverdlovs...
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- inter_netuser 5y agoRemember that bat cave in Yunnan (specifically Mojiang) which supposedly had also similar viruses? Right on the border of Laos. What's weird is that nobody talks about WHY Shi Zheng-Li/"Bat Woman" was digging around random caves in Yunnan. She was sent to investigate a lethal outbreak with CFR of 50%. "Lethal Pneumonia Cases in Mojiang Miners (2012)" https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2021.702199/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2021.7021... https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/bat-cave-solves-mystery-of-deadly-sars-virus/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/bat-cave-solves-m... https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1006698 https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/j...
- kortex 5y agoI'm still surprised very few sources are talking about the third possible origin - WIV scientist(s) contracted COVID19 when doing research in/near bat caves with insufficient PPE. You see researchers wearing what look like surgical masks, which is likely insufficient. And this is post-Covid Chinese media, so it's probably sugar coated. I remember reading a translated article (sadly can't find it at the moment) which reported lab techs in Yunnan working in terrible conditions, getting bat urine and blood on them trying to catch bats, with barely adequate masks and goggles. https://algulf.net/2021/06/09/2019-video-shows-wuhan-scientists-collect-samples-from-bat-caves/ https://algulf.net/2021/06/09/2019-video-shows-wuhan-scienti...
- jml7c5 5y ago>What's weird is that nobody talks about WHY Shi Zheng-Li/"Bat Woman" was digging around random caves in Yunnan. She is an expert on SARS-like viruses, and her research focus is on the threat of zoonotic spillover from bats. One would expect her to be involved in the investigation of an apparent zoonotic spillover from bats that causes SARS-like symptoms. Hell, it would be weird if she wasn't part of the investigation.
- inter_netuser 5y agoOf course she was involved. She published a paper on it. The weird part is how hushed up it is. Nobody talks about the 2012 outbreak, even though it was supposedly a very similar virus, and they already talked about the Yunnan caves. Just can't talk about the outbreak? Why?
- btilly 5y agoThere are actually 2 virology institutions in Wuhan. WIV is fairly far from the neighborhood where things got going. Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention is a 5 minute walk from the wet market. And went through the disruption of a move just before COVID broke out. See https://nypost.com/2021/08/13/who-scientist-eyes-on-wuhan-lab-that-moved-before-pandemic/ https://nypost.com/2021/08/13/who-scientist-eyes-on-wuhan-la... for more.
- moralestapia 5y ago>WIV is fairly far from the neighborhood where things got going. Still closer than Southeast Asia, though.
- Gibbon1 5y agoFirst cases to show up in the Bay Area were in late Jan 2020. That's only 6 weeks after the Chinese figured out they had a problem on their hands.
- ravel-bar-foo 5y agoWIV, the seafood market, and the airport are all on the same subway line. The topology of disease spread in cities is only approximated by physical distance.
- btilly 5y agoThat I hadn't known. Thanks.
- jhgb 5y agoDoes it matter that they're on the same subway line? Do all people only travel on one subway line each and never change trains?
- dqv 5y agoYes it matters. >Do all people only travel on one subway line each and never change trains? It's not what all people do that matters when trying to find the origin of a highly contagious virus. It only takes one person going from point A to point B to cause a pandemic.
- Jerry2 5y agoJust a day ago or so, DRASTIC released [1] DARPA funding proposals for Coronavirus research project from 2018. They were released by a whistleblower. They basically outline how to create COVID-19. Incidentally, DARPA refused to fund it because it's GoF research but someone else did fund it. It's a fascinating read. [1] https://drasticresearch.org/2021/09/21/the-defuse-project-documents/ https://drasticresearch.org/2021/09/21/the-defuse-project-do...
- chana_masala 5y ago"Someone" else...
- alex_young 5y agoPretending that everything you state is true (a seemingly unsubstantiated conclusion), why does it matter? If a lab did in fact accidentally leak the virus, what more can we gain at this point? Isn’t the cat out of the bag? We all agree that gain of function research is a bad idea. What’s so interesting about this beside some rather bland historical footnote?
- CryptoPunk 5y agoConfirming a lab origin would create vastly more political will to oppose GoF research, and potentially prevent another cataclysmic pandemic (which has directly killed 4 million people) and pandemic-response (which has corresponded with a 23.8% increase in obesity/overweightedness in children 5 - 11, led to over 100 million children missing out on meaningful education for upwards of a year, and destroyed innumerable businesses, and in doing so, massively exacerbated poverty).
- mikem170 5y ago> The main problems that the Institute of Virology has is that the outbreak occurred in close proximity to that Institute. The first outbreak occurred in Wuhan, but there's no proof that the first cases were in Wuhan. In fact there's genetic evidence indicating there may have been earlier cases 600 miles to the south [0], where the bats are. [0] https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2020-05-13/scientist-suggests-coronavirus-originated-outside-of-wuhan https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2020-05-...
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]