7 ms·

200mb and 300 DLLs What's up with windows desktop app development? is it really THAT bad? https://i.imgur.com/pkPSq7k.png https://i.imgur.com/pkPSq7k.png

qayxc 5y ago
Looks like a deployment issue to me: they basically deployed the entire .NET 5 framework with the app instead of relying on the system installed one.
- gmemstr 5y ago
  Makes sense, that's the portable version. Would be reasonable to package that all together.
- Shadonototra 5y ago
  why would one need to install the .net 5 framework only just to paint? is this Java bis? They should statically ship what the program needs, nothing less, nothing more
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    A bit hard, when plugins can use anything from .NET platform.
sedatk 5y ago
$ sudo apt install gimp Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done The following package was automatically installed and is no longer required: libnuget-core-cil Use 'sudo apt autoremove' to remove it. The following additional packages will be installed: fonts-droid-fallback fonts-noto-mono fonts-urw-base35 ghostscript gimp-data i965-va-driver intel-media-va-driver libaacs0 libamd2 libaom0 libavcodec58 libavformat58 libavutil56 libbabl-0.1-0 libbdplus0 libbluray2 libcamd2 libccolamd2 libcholmod3 libchromaprint1 libcodec2-0.9 libcolamd2 libde265-0 libexiv2-27 libgegl-0.4-0 libgegl-common libgexiv2-2 libgfortran5 libgimp2.0 libgme0 libgs9 libgs9-common libgsm1 libheif1 libigdgmm11 libijs-0.35 libilmbase24 libjbig2dec0 liblapack3 libmetis5 libmng2 libmypaint-1.5-1 libmypaint-common libopenexr24 libopenmpt0 libpaper-utils libpaper1 libpoppler-glib8 libpoppler97 libraw19 libsdl2-2.0-0 libshine3 libsnappy1v5 libssh-gcrypt-4 libsuitesparseconfig5 libswresample3 libswscale5 libumfpack5 libva-drm2 libva-x11-2 libva2 libvdpau1 libwebpmux3 libwmf0.2-7 libx264-155 libx265-179 libxvidcore4 libzvbi-common libzvbi0 mesa-va-drivers mesa-vdpau-drivers ocl-icd-libopencl1 poppler-data va-driver-all vdpau-driver-all Suggested packages: fonts-noto fonts-freefont-otf | fonts-freefont-ttf fonts-texgyre ghostscript-x gimp-help-en | gimp-help gimp-data-extras gvfs-backends i965-va-driver-shaders libbluray-bdj exiv2 libwmf0.2-7-gtk opencl-icd poppler-utils fonts-japanese-mincho | fonts-ipafont-mincho fonts-japanese-gothic | fonts-ipafont-gothic fonts-arphic-ukai fonts-arphic-uming fonts-nanum libvdpau-va-gl1 nvidia-vdpau-driver nvidia-legacy-340xx-vdpau-driver nvidia-legacy-304xx-vdpau-driver The following NEW packages will be installed: fonts-droid-fallback fonts-noto-mono fonts-urw-base35 ghostscript gimp gimp-data i965-va-driver intel-media-va-driver libaacs0 libamd2 libaom0 libavcodec58 libavformat58 libavutil56 libbabl-0.1-0 libbdplus0 libbluray2 libcamd2 libccolamd2 libcholmod3 libchromaprint1 libcodec2-0.9 libcolamd2 libde265-0 libexiv2-27 libgegl-0.4-0 libgegl-common libgexiv2-2 libgfortran5 libgimp2.0 libgme0 libgs9 libgs9-common libgsm1 libheif1 libigdgmm11 libijs-0.35 libilmbase24 libjbig2dec0 liblapack3 libmetis5 libmng2 libmypaint-1.5-1 libmypaint-common libopenexr24 libopenmpt0 libpaper-utils libpaper1 libpoppler-glib8 libpoppler97 libraw19 libsdl2-2.0-0 libshine3 libsnappy1v5 libssh-gcrypt-4 libsuitesparseconfig5 libswresample3 libswscale5 libumfpack5 libva-drm2 libva-x11-2 libva2 libvdpau1 libwebpmux3 libwmf0.2-7 libx264-155 libx265-179 libxvidcore4 libzvbi-common libzvbi0 mesa-va-drivers mesa-vdpau-drivers ocl-icd-libopencl1 poppler-data va-driver-all vdpau-driver-all 0 upgraded, 76 newly installed, 0 to remove and 10 not upgraded. Need to get 61.7 MB of archives. After this operation, 320 MB of additional disk space will be used. Do you want to continue? [Y/n]
- Shadonototra 5y ago
  you include asian fonts + gpu driver, not a fair comparison at least it's a native program, even if it's as bloated at paint.net
  - duckmysick 5y ago
    Asian fonts are suggested packages which aren't installed by default and not included in the 76 newly installed ones. What do you mean a native program? What makes Gimp a native program for Linux but doesn't make Paint.NET native for Windows?
- Macha 5y ago
  To be fair, GIMP is a much more featureful program than Paint.NET.
MarkSweep 5y ago
They are deploying an entire copy of the .NET runtime with the app. This is convenient for the app developer since they can test the combination of app and runtime and make sure everything works. While .NET does support trimming unused classes, methods, and DLLs, there are two things that prevent it from being used in this app. First, the .NET Windows GUI does not officially support trimming. Secondly, Paint.NET supports binary plugins. So at build time Paint.NET has no way to know what plugins will need, so it has to keep everything.
- Shadonototra 5y ago
  300+ DLLs next to the executable, how can people be ok with that? it smells junk software and tasteless/careless developpers
  - detaro 5y ago
    So you download the "portable" version, i.e. explicitly ask to please come with all dependencies in one archive, and then complain that there are ... dependencies in the same folder?
    - Shadonototra 5y ago
      I'm not complaining about the dependencies, the program uses libraries to facilitate the development, it's fair I complain about the size of the folder, and the insane amount of DLLs the program probably don't use

qayxc 5y ago

Looks like a deployment issue to me: they basically deployed the entire .NET 5 framework with the app instead of relying on the system installed one.

gmemstr 5y ago
Makes sense, that's the portable version. Would be reasonable to package that all together.
Shadonototra 5y ago
why would one need to install the .net 5 framework only just to paint? is this Java bis? They should statically ship what the program needs, nothing less, nothing more
- pjmlp 5y ago
  A bit hard, when plugins can use anything from .NET platform.

sedatk 5y ago

$ sudo apt install gimp Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done The following package was automatically installed and is no longer required: libnuget-core-cil Use 'sudo apt autoremove' to remove it. The following additional packages will be installed: fonts-droid-fallback fonts-noto-mono fonts-urw-base35 ghostscript gimp-data i965-va-driver intel-media-va-driver libaacs0 libamd2 libaom0 libavcodec58 libavformat58 libavutil56 libbabl-0.1-0 libbdplus0 libbluray2 libcamd2 libccolamd2 libcholmod3 libchromaprint1 libcodec2-0.9 libcolamd2 libde265-0 libexiv2-27 libgegl-0.4-0 libgegl-common libgexiv2-2 libgfortran5 libgimp2.0 libgme0 libgs9 libgs9-common libgsm1 libheif1 libigdgmm11 libijs-0.35 libilmbase24 libjbig2dec0 liblapack3 libmetis5 libmng2 libmypaint-1.5-1 libmypaint-common libopenexr24 libopenmpt0 libpaper-utils libpaper1 libpoppler-glib8 libpoppler97 libraw19 libsdl2-2.0-0 libshine3 libsnappy1v5 libssh-gcrypt-4 libsuitesparseconfig5 libswresample3 libswscale5 libumfpack5 libva-drm2 libva-x11-2 libva2 libvdpau1 libwebpmux3 libwmf0.2-7 libx264-155 libx265-179 libxvidcore4 libzvbi-common libzvbi0 mesa-va-drivers mesa-vdpau-drivers ocl-icd-libopencl1 poppler-data va-driver-all vdpau-driver-all Suggested packages: fonts-noto fonts-freefont-otf | fonts-freefont-ttf fonts-texgyre ghostscript-x gimp-help-en | gimp-help gimp-data-extras gvfs-backends i965-va-driver-shaders libbluray-bdj exiv2 libwmf0.2-7-gtk opencl-icd poppler-utils fonts-japanese-mincho | fonts-ipafont-mincho fonts-japanese-gothic | fonts-ipafont-gothic fonts-arphic-ukai fonts-arphic-uming fonts-nanum libvdpau-va-gl1 nvidia-vdpau-driver nvidia-legacy-340xx-vdpau-driver nvidia-legacy-304xx-vdpau-driver The following NEW packages will be installed: fonts-droid-fallback fonts-noto-mono fonts-urw-base35 ghostscript gimp gimp-data i965-va-driver intel-media-va-driver libaacs0 libamd2 libaom0 libavcodec58 libavformat58 libavutil56 libbabl-0.1-0 libbdplus0 libbluray2 libcamd2 libccolamd2 libcholmod3 libchromaprint1 libcodec2-0.9 libcolamd2 libde265-0 libexiv2-27 libgegl-0.4-0 libgegl-common libgexiv2-2 libgfortran5 libgimp2.0 libgme0 libgs9 libgs9-common libgsm1 libheif1 libigdgmm11 libijs-0.35 libilmbase24 libjbig2dec0 liblapack3 libmetis5 libmng2 libmypaint-1.5-1 libmypaint-common libopenexr24 libopenmpt0 libpaper-utils libpaper1 libpoppler-glib8 libpoppler97 libraw19 libsdl2-2.0-0 libshine3 libsnappy1v5 libssh-gcrypt-4 libsuitesparseconfig5 libswresample3 libswscale5 libumfpack5 libva-drm2 libva-x11-2 libva2 libvdpau1 libwebpmux3 libwmf0.2-7 libx264-155 libx265-179 libxvidcore4 libzvbi-common libzvbi0 mesa-va-drivers mesa-vdpau-drivers ocl-icd-libopencl1 poppler-data va-driver-all vdpau-driver-all 0 upgraded, 76 newly installed, 0 to remove and 10 not upgraded. Need to get 61.7 MB of archives. After this operation, 320 MB of additional disk space will be used. Do you want to continue? [Y/n]

Shadonototra 5y ago
you include asian fonts + gpu driver, not a fair comparison at least it's a native program, even if it's as bloated at paint.net
- duckmysick 5y ago
  Asian fonts are suggested packages which aren't installed by default and not included in the 76 newly installed ones. What do you mean a native program? What makes Gimp a native program for Linux but doesn't make Paint.NET native for Windows?
Macha 5y ago
To be fair, GIMP is a much more featureful program than Paint.NET.

MarkSweep 5y ago

They are deploying an entire copy of the .NET runtime with the app. This is convenient for the app developer since they can test the combination of app and runtime and make sure everything works. While .NET does support trimming unused classes, methods, and DLLs, there are two things that prevent it from being used in this app. First, the .NET Windows GUI does not officially support trimming. Secondly, Paint.NET supports binary plugins. So at build time Paint.NET has no way to know what plugins will need, so it has to keep everything.

Shadonototra 5y ago
300+ DLLs next to the executable, how can people be ok with that? it smells junk software and tasteless/careless developpers
- detaro 5y ago
  So you download the "portable" version, i.e. explicitly ask to please come with all dependencies in one archive, and then complain that there are ... dependencies in the same folder?
  - Shadonototra 5y ago
    I'm not complaining about the dependencies, the program uses libraries to facilitate the development, it's fair I complain about the size of the folder, and the insane amount of DLLs the program probably don't use