6 ms·

Feeling sad, angry, depressed are essential parts of who we really are. We are not something sits in containers waiting to be amused at every second. Salut, br

Feeling sad, angry, depressed are essential parts of who we really are. We are not something sits in containers waiting to be amused at every second. Salut, brave new world.

burnished 5y ago
Clinical depression is different from feeling sad. Being able to detect cognitive decline would probably be a great boon in elder care.
- maybelsyrup 5y ago
  > Clinical depression is different from feeling sad. I don't want to come off as a pedant on this, but the prevailing definitions of clinical depression show quite clearly that it's a difference of degree, and not of kind. Clinical depression can indeed be "feeling sad": > Criterion A.1: Depressed mood most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated by either subjective report (e.g., feels sad, empty, hopeless) or observation made by others (e.g., appears tearful). (Note: In children and adolescents, can be irritable mood.) > The essential feature of a major depressive episode is a period of at least 2 weeks during which there is either depressed mood or the loss of interest or pleasure in nearly all activities (Criterion A) > The mood in a major depressive episode is often described by the person as depressed, sad, hopeless, discouraged, or "down in the dumps" (Criterion Al). In some cases, sadness may be denied at first but may subsequently be elicited by interview (e.g., by pointing out that the individual looks as if he or she is about to cry). In some individuals who complain of feeling "blah," having no feelings, or feeling anxious, the presence of a depressed mood can be inferred from the person's facial expression and demeanor. Both of these are straight from the DSM-5 (pp. 160-163) on Major Depressive Disorder: this is what's used to diagnose you, and not any blood test or neurotransmitter assay. "Depressed mood" is not described in any further detail, by the way. (Which, to me anyway, was always surprising in itself. You'd think there'd be more precision.) Again, I hope this illuminating instead of pedantic. The notion that "clinical depression is not 'the blues'" is common enough these days, and it's well-intended, but people can get a somewhat mistaken impression from it. I think maybe it's safer to say that "clinical depression is indeed the blues, but also some other stuff on a list of 8, for an extended period of time".
  - johnfn 5y ago
    This isn’t actually true. It’s right there in the sources you quoted. > either depressed mood or the loss of interest or pleasure in nearly all activities Note the “or” rather than an “and”, meaning it can be the second half only. And also note that lack of interest/pleasure does not mean you’re sad, it just means you don’t enjoy activities. It’s actually quite different! Additionally, the DSM paints depression as a constellation of symptoms - so even if you don’t have A.1 you could have a couple of the others and still be depressed. > clinical depression is indeed the blues, but also some other stuff on a list of 8, for an extended period of time The most precise statement would actually be “clinical depression can be the blues, but could also be a set of other symptoms.”
  - burnished 5y ago
    You seem to be trivializing this experience in a well meaning fashion. An abrasion can be trivial or life threatening as a matter of degree right? But you wouldn't treat both kinds the same, or even really talk about them the same. I'm not going to try and convince you further on this point in part because it would involve getting into a discussion on mental health diagnosis and seriously fuck that, but thank you for citing and quoting sources. I'm already familiar with this but it makes it a lot easier to respond when some one is willing to be specific in what they think and why. If it is pedantic then let there be more pedantry. >not any blood test or neurotransmitter assay. "Depressed mood" is not described in any further detail, by the way. (Which, to me anyway, was always surprising in itself. You'd think there'd be more precision.) This is actually really interesting! So, part of the reason that you don't get the precision that you're used to is that the brain is wicked complicated and the other part is it is very difficult to observe. Individual neurons are difficult to isolate and measure (Hodgkin and Huxley won the 1963 Nobel Prize for probing the 'squid giant axon') and thats just for measuring 'action potential', which is the gross exchange of ions across the neuron (typically what is meant when people say your brain runs on electricity). The actual signaling occurs by chemical transmission that occurs in yet smaller synaptic clefts! Those chemicals typically get reused or recycled by the brains support system, so it would be difficult to see anything occur in the blood, and a lot of those chemicals also perform other tasks or reactions in the body. These chemicals are called neurotransmitters when we observe them performing this specific kind of signaling. Some neurotransmitters are associated with certain parts of the brain, or subsystems, or feelings, but for all we know we could be aliens figuring out a car by slicing it into thin pieces and making a big deal out of the different kinds of motor oil. We've got a good idea of how different parts are connected, and some models for how some of the pieces might work that are almost certainly wrong (but instructively so), but we aren't really 'there' yet with respect to being able to understand mental health in the same way that we understand, say, diabetes.

Feeling sad, angry, depressed are essential parts of who we really are. We are not something sits in containers waiting to be amused at every second. Salut, brave new world.

burnished 5y ago

Clinical depression is different from feeling sad. Being able to detect cognitive decline would probably be a great boon in elder care.

maybelsyrup 5y ago
> Clinical depression is different from feeling sad. I don't want to come off as a pedant on this, but the prevailing definitions of clinical depression show quite clearly that it's a difference of degree, and not of kind. Clinical depression can indeed be "feeling sad": > Criterion A.1: Depressed mood most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated by either subjective report (e.g., feels sad, empty, hopeless) or observation made by others (e.g., appears tearful). (Note: In children and adolescents, can be irritable mood.) > The essential feature of a major depressive episode is a period of at least 2 weeks during which there is either depressed mood or the loss of interest or pleasure in nearly all activities (Criterion A) > The mood in a major depressive episode is often described by the person as depressed, sad, hopeless, discouraged, or "down in the dumps" (Criterion Al). In some cases, sadness may be denied at first but may subsequently be elicited by interview (e.g., by pointing out that the individual looks as if he or she is about to cry). In some individuals who complain of feeling "blah," having no feelings, or feeling anxious, the presence of a depressed mood can be inferred from the person's facial expression and demeanor. Both of these are straight from the DSM-5 (pp. 160-163) on Major Depressive Disorder: this is what's used to diagnose you, and not any blood test or neurotransmitter assay. "Depressed mood" is not described in any further detail, by the way. (Which, to me anyway, was always surprising in itself. You'd think there'd be more precision.) Again, I hope this illuminating instead of pedantic. The notion that "clinical depression is not 'the blues'" is common enough these days, and it's well-intended, but people can get a somewhat mistaken impression from it. I think maybe it's safer to say that "clinical depression is indeed the blues, but also some other stuff on a list of 8, for an extended period of time".
- johnfn 5y ago
  This isn’t actually true. It’s right there in the sources you quoted. > either depressed mood or the loss of interest or pleasure in nearly all activities Note the “or” rather than an “and”, meaning it can be the second half only. And also note that lack of interest/pleasure does not mean you’re sad, it just means you don’t enjoy activities. It’s actually quite different! Additionally, the DSM paints depression as a constellation of symptoms - so even if you don’t have A.1 you could have a couple of the others and still be depressed. > clinical depression is indeed the blues, but also some other stuff on a list of 8, for an extended period of time The most precise statement would actually be “clinical depression can be the blues, but could also be a set of other symptoms.”
- burnished 5y ago
  You seem to be trivializing this experience in a well meaning fashion. An abrasion can be trivial or life threatening as a matter of degree right? But you wouldn't treat both kinds the same, or even really talk about them the same. I'm not going to try and convince you further on this point in part because it would involve getting into a discussion on mental health diagnosis and seriously fuck that, but thank you for citing and quoting sources. I'm already familiar with this but it makes it a lot easier to respond when some one is willing to be specific in what they think and why. If it is pedantic then let there be more pedantry. >not any blood test or neurotransmitter assay. "Depressed mood" is not described in any further detail, by the way. (Which, to me anyway, was always surprising in itself. You'd think there'd be more precision.) This is actually really interesting! So, part of the reason that you don't get the precision that you're used to is that the brain is wicked complicated and the other part is it is very difficult to observe. Individual neurons are difficult to isolate and measure (Hodgkin and Huxley won the 1963 Nobel Prize for probing the 'squid giant axon') and thats just for measuring 'action potential', which is the gross exchange of ions across the neuron (typically what is meant when people say your brain runs on electricity). The actual signaling occurs by chemical transmission that occurs in yet smaller synaptic clefts! Those chemicals typically get reused or recycled by the brains support system, so it would be difficult to see anything occur in the blood, and a lot of those chemicals also perform other tasks or reactions in the body. These chemicals are called neurotransmitters when we observe them performing this specific kind of signaling. Some neurotransmitters are associated with certain parts of the brain, or subsystems, or feelings, but for all we know we could be aliens figuring out a car by slicing it into thin pieces and making a big deal out of the different kinds of motor oil. We've got a good idea of how different parts are connected, and some models for how some of the pieces might work that are almost certainly wrong (but instructively so), but we aren't really 'there' yet with respect to being able to understand mental health in the same way that we understand, say, diabetes.