4 ms·

I don't have crippling Anxiety, but Anxiety is crippling me

16 points by SMAAART 5y ago

From the outside in, people think that I've got it going on. I grew up poor, and I was an awkward shy kid, and - a few decades later - by any measure I am living the American dream. With hard work I put myself through college at night, survived divorce, lay-off, and more. When I was 18 almost as a joke I started a little FUN project that ended up as a mildly successful company with a small exit. Then I follow the college-job route, here and there thinkering with entrepreneurship, but while I was not longer socially shy/awkward my ventures often were relinquished to lists, or just acquiring a domain (at one point I owned >200 domains), or building a sucky web site, or filing a provisional patent, but I was "marketing shy", I never put myself out there, or at times I hid behind some excuse that I know now they were lame AF: "I need 20 million dollars in VC to make it happen". Plot twist, once I got a meeting with a VC I blew it off with an excuse. Even at work as a VP I have the "failure to launch" syndrome, I promise projects and then I don't follow through because I get stuck somewhere where my Anxiety cripples me (often when some deliverable involves managing other people). Nobody believes me, not even my therapist. Let alone my dozens of ex-girlfirends; but here I am. Planing planning planning and never seeing a venture through. Insecurity, impostor's syndrome, lack of self-esteem... I got it all. I am my own worst enemy. I need to get through my own BS. Any pointers? Leads? Books (I've read so many)? Or should I just be my own life/accountability coach and kich my own derriere? Should I just move to a crappy little dark place and deprive myself of food and any pleasures/necessities (become hungry by choice) and have my ventures be the ones providing my income, and not my job/savings?

sircastor 5y ago
I don’t think you should risk your health/livelihood to pursue a venture. First because this startup mentality has consumed our culture with this idea that you must turn a project into a business, and get capital, go big, sacrifice everything, and become a billionaire success story. You don’t need to do that, and your life isn’t of less worth than the person who does. I’m curious how you’re comparing your success internally with how others are seeing it. You have an internal record of everything you think you ought to be done. I would suggest shifting all these ideas to a “someday/maybe” list. Don’t consider them obligatory, but look at the list once a week and decide which of the things there is most important. Work on the. If something stops being important, let it go (it can stay on the list if you aren’t ready to let it go away forever) I also struggle with anxiety of the same kind that you’ve described. When I’m working through a project, especially something large that seems impossible I will tell myself (out loud) “just do the very next thing”. This helps make the next step consumable, which makes it easier for me to actually do it. Also, if your Therapist doesn’t believe you, you might get a different therapist
truro 5y ago
It's probably quaint to this generation, but decades ago, I learned how to manage (not eliminate) fear, worry, and anxiety by reading Dale Carnegie's How to Stop Worrying and Start Living. It's still published. Though his anecdotes are from the thirties and forties, it's a fun read. It worked for me.
f0e4c2f7 5y ago
A book that was useful for me was Feeling Great by David Burns.
pkrotich 5y ago
I can relate in so many ways - by any measure I’ve had some success looking-in-from-outside, but deep-down I know I’m probably at 25% of my true potential. It can be maddening. Like you, I came from nothing [0] my dream growing up was to make equivalent of $25/month. I’ve and continue to struggle with almost every vice you mentioned and more. I tried therapy, mastermind groups etc but it didn’t work. Here is what I know for those of us who’ve somehow made the journey from nothing 1) you’ll always struggle with Survivors Quilt - you know you got lucky somehow (even if you worked your buttocks off) and you end up feeling like you’re not doing enough to the take advantage of the opportunities you’ve avail yourself. 2) you develop something close to PTSD with constant FOMO 3) you carry insecurities and some shame (trying to fit into particular status or group etc) 4) given your journey- you’re simply exhausted in so many ways 5) lack of a support system can manifest itself in so many harmful ways. This is what has helped me - a) I don’t try to fit in or overcompensate. b) I’ve checked out of the rat race to focus on what’s important to me and my growth — mental health. c) stopped trying to be a hero or the smartest one - hired people to get things done, so I can truly become an idea machine (taking advantage of the lack of sustained focus) I have my email on the profile if you want to reach out. [0] - https://tinyurl.com/26zp9yb6 https://tinyurl.com/26zp9yb6
nzmsv 5y ago
Are you me? ;) Just kidding, I am not a VP and it sounds like your starting position was worse (so you've accomplished a lot more). But the rest of it reads like something I could have written. My suggestion: therapy. It will take more than a year because what you'll be doing is slowly undoing some habits and ways of thinking that you have built up over a lifetime. Because they are so established they will take a while to change. What absolutely not to do: anything that starts with "kicking my own ass". My guess is you already do a lot of it. Is it working? Thought so. What you want to do is replace shame with picking some core values for yourself and sticking to them. Why not shame? Because when you are kicking your own ass in your mind, you actually split off the motivational part of yourself and make it your enemy. No wonder there is resistance! You are probably a very nice person. There is no reason your inner voice can't be nice and motivating at the same time. Think mentor, not drill sergeant. Finally, it helps to talk to real people about this instead of reading books. This can be a therapist or a buddy. Why people and not books? Books won't call you on your BS :) In a nice understanding manner of course. P.S. This is all "do as I say, not as I do". I struggle with this sort of thing also. If you are anything like me, you know all the right stuff to do, fail to follow through, and then beat yourself up about it. I have also wished for an accountability coach from time to time, but they are expensive. I wonder if something similar can be accomplished in a peer to peer fashion. Email in profile if you want to try.
johnthescott 5y ago
relax your expectations. the dao is silent.
gitowiec 5y ago
Change therapist, he's not yours if he does not believe you.
skmurphy 5y ago
It seems to me you have accomplished quite a bit. From your description you enjoy a level of success that many fail to achieve: a successful startup with an exit before college, completed college, and an executive level position ("at work as a VP"). I found this description of anxiety by Tim Keller (who borrows from Rollo May) very useful: “Healthy fear is specific and constructive. It sparks physical energy and mental clarity. It enables you to summon your deepest capacities to protect something that you value that is threatened. Fear is specific and constructive Anxiety is diffuse. Where fear galvanizes you into action, anxiety debilitates you and paralyzes you so that you are unable to make a decision or act. Fear is a thunderstorm that passes back into sunlight and green grass. Anxiety is a cold drizzle, it’s 34 degrees and raining all the time so that your soul starts to mildew. Anxiety is a threat to your sense of self, when your identity and sense of security are eaten away. It’s deeper and more destructive." Tim Keller in https://youtu.be/-8tdA8YMOYM?t=586 [link starts at 9:46 min mark with definition from Rollo May, Keller’s story begins at 11:06] What if you take the next 18 months and make a solid contribution at work, help your people develop, and focus on making and meeting your commitments by keeping them small. Don't plan for home runs or large scale-ups. Think base hits and reliable performance. If "by any measure I am living the American dream" you should enjoy it. Zoom in for traction ("small predictable steps") and enjoy the ride. You can pick a date in late 2022 to start making a few medium size plans and see if you can get better at making and meeting commitments. My $0.02 your mileage may vary.
JasonCannon 5y ago
Meditate. Spend time doing nothing but breathing. Feel your breath as it enters and leaves your nostrils. Every time you catch yourself thinking about anything except for your breath entering and leaving your nostrils congratulate yourself for being mindful enough to catch that you've wandered and then return your thoughts back to your breathe. At first this will be hard to do for more than a couple of minutes. With time you can do it longer and longer. Then, when you start to feel anxiety rise up, stop. Breathe. Forget about the future forget about the projects forget about the expectations and the pressures you've placed on yourself. Just stop. And breathe. Focusing your mind intentionally on something will activate your prefrontal cortex which is responsible for logic and reasoning, and quiet your amygdala which is the fight or flight part of your brain. Chronic anxiety causes your amygdala to overactivate and meditation can help reverse that damage. Modern neuroscience backs this all up more and more. It won't feel like you are doing anything at first. But over time you will notice the effects. Also, like others have said. You don't NEED to do a venture to be successful. I don't. I am the exact opposite of the person who does that, and I am more successful than I could have ever hoped growing up. Many ways to find success in life. >Should I just move to a crappy little dark place and deprive myself of food and any pleasures/necessities (become hungry by choice) Under no circumstances should you ever do that. Ever. In a million years.
softwaredoug 5y ago
Sounds like your role doesn’t suit your skills. Which is fine: you can’t be all things to all people. Can you just be more open about your competencies at work? “I love to plan things and have ideas, but I suck at marketing them and hitting the launch button”. Maybe your an awesome planner that needs to be partnered with someone more open to risk? If they fire you for being honest about your skills, then what? You have won! You’ve gotten out of a role you’re not a great fit for freeing you up to find what’s best for you.
laurieg 5y ago
"Nobody believes me, not even my therapist." I wonder if you could expand on this point a little. What kind of therapists have you spoken to and what kind of conversations are you having with them?
pps 5y ago
Meditation (just focus on your internal state - breath, discomfort, feeling on skin, etc - for 15min a day, one day with eyes closed, one day with open), Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (read a workbook and do this by yourself everyday - Mind Over Mood by Padesky, Greenberger, would be my advice), breath work to help yourself quickly in the worst moments (look for Huberman Lab podcast videos on Youtube for things that are scientifically proven), and sleep, sleep, sleep as long as you need
SMAAART 5y ago
FOLLOW-UP: "Our main business is not to see what lies dimly at a distance, but to do what lies clearly at hand." Thank you everyone for chiming in with your high quality comments, I read and re-read them them all three time, and I thought about them as I was falling asleep, and as I woke up this morning. Observation about the comments: they are all high quality, and well intentioned. Observations about the discussion: I am not alone. I kind of knew it already. I wonder if the pervasiveness of my experience is actually wider and deeper than I/we though with greater and deeper ripple effects than we believe. A conspiracy theorist would state that it's not a bug in fabric of existence, but a feature in The Matrix, by The Matrix. Observations about me: WOW! I have been meaning to post something similar for days now, and I procrastinated for about 2 weeks. I am glad I posted it. I have been meaning to post this unpacking comment since last night, Anxiety got in the way. I have a personal blog where I write about this stuff, I have an article I me related to this, that wants to come out, but I'm letting Anxiety win and I have been procrastinating for a month or so now. TL;DR: This discussion added new levels of positive and active perspectives to my worldviews. My Action Item: "Our main business is not to see what lies dimly at a distance, but to do what lies clearly at hand." P.S.: Thank you for everyone who offered to be avail for me to reaching out, I'd love to but I am too chicken to do that, vulnerability scares the bejesus out of me.
codingclaws 5y ago
It seems like you need to focus on just a couple projects. I have been working on just one personal project for 2 years and it's a good feeling. Course the hardest part is finding the fortitude.
Abelton 5y ago
You sound like a nice guy, and that may be part of the problem. This book helped me correct that for myself. "No More Mr. Nice Guy" https://www.amazon.com/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy/dp/0762415339 https://www.amazon.com/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy/dp/0762415339

16 points by SMAAART 5y ago

sircastor 5y ago

I don’t think you should risk your health/livelihood to pursue a venture. First because this startup mentality has consumed our culture with this idea that you must turn a project into a business, and get capital, go big, sacrifice everything, and become a billionaire success story. You don’t need to do that, and your life isn’t of less worth than the person who does. I’m curious how you’re comparing your success internally with how others are seeing it. You have an internal record of everything you think you ought to be done. I would suggest shifting all these ideas to a “someday/maybe” list. Don’t consider them obligatory, but look at the list once a week and decide which of the things there is most important. Work on the. If something stops being important, let it go (it can stay on the list if you aren’t ready to let it go away forever) I also struggle with anxiety of the same kind that you’ve described. When I’m working through a project, especially something large that seems impossible I will tell myself (out loud) “just do the very next thing”. This helps make the next step consumable, which makes it easier for me to actually do it. Also, if your Therapist doesn’t believe you, you might get a different therapist

truro 5y ago

It's probably quaint to this generation, but decades ago, I learned how to manage (not eliminate) fear, worry, and anxiety by reading Dale Carnegie's How to Stop Worrying and Start Living. It's still published. Though his anecdotes are from the thirties and forties, it's a fun read. It worked for me.

f0e4c2f7 5y ago

A book that was useful for me was Feeling Great by David Burns.

pkrotich 5y ago

I can relate in so many ways - by any measure I’ve had some success looking-in-from-outside, but deep-down I know I’m probably at 25% of my true potential. It can be maddening. Like you, I came from nothing [0] my dream growing up was to make equivalent of $25/month. I’ve and continue to struggle with almost every vice you mentioned and more. I tried therapy, mastermind groups etc but it didn’t work. Here is what I know for those of us who’ve somehow made the journey from nothing 1) you’ll always struggle with Survivors Quilt - you know you got lucky somehow (even if you worked your buttocks off) and you end up feeling like you’re not doing enough to the take advantage of the opportunities you’ve avail yourself. 2) you develop something close to PTSD with constant FOMO 3) you carry insecurities and some shame (trying to fit into particular status or group etc) 4) given your journey- you’re simply exhausted in so many ways 5) lack of a support system can manifest itself in so many harmful ways. This is what has helped me - a) I don’t try to fit in or overcompensate. b) I’ve checked out of the rat race to focus on what’s important to me and my growth — mental health. c) stopped trying to be a hero or the smartest one - hired people to get things done, so I can truly become an idea machine (taking advantage of the lack of sustained focus) I have my email on the profile if you want to reach out. [0] - https://tinyurl.com/26zp9yb6 https://tinyurl.com/26zp9yb6

nzmsv 5y ago

Are you me? ;) Just kidding, I am not a VP and it sounds like your starting position was worse (so you've accomplished a lot more). But the rest of it reads like something I could have written. My suggestion: therapy. It will take more than a year because what you'll be doing is slowly undoing some habits and ways of thinking that you have built up over a lifetime. Because they are so established they will take a while to change. What absolutely not to do: anything that starts with "kicking my own ass". My guess is you already do a lot of it. Is it working? Thought so. What you want to do is replace shame with picking some core values for yourself and sticking to them. Why not shame? Because when you are kicking your own ass in your mind, you actually split off the motivational part of yourself and make it your enemy. No wonder there is resistance! You are probably a very nice person. There is no reason your inner voice can't be nice and motivating at the same time. Think mentor, not drill sergeant. Finally, it helps to talk to real people about this instead of reading books. This can be a therapist or a buddy. Why people and not books? Books won't call you on your BS :) In a nice understanding manner of course. P.S. This is all "do as I say, not as I do". I struggle with this sort of thing also. If you are anything like me, you know all the right stuff to do, fail to follow through, and then beat yourself up about it. I have also wished for an accountability coach from time to time, but they are expensive. I wonder if something similar can be accomplished in a peer to peer fashion. Email in profile if you want to try.

johnthescott 5y ago

relax your expectations. the dao is silent.

gitowiec 5y ago

Change therapist, he's not yours if he does not believe you.

skmurphy 5y ago

It seems to me you have accomplished quite a bit. From your description you enjoy a level of success that many fail to achieve: a successful startup with an exit before college, completed college, and an executive level position ("at work as a VP"). I found this description of anxiety by Tim Keller (who borrows from Rollo May) very useful: “Healthy fear is specific and constructive. It sparks physical energy and mental clarity. It enables you to summon your deepest capacities to protect something that you value that is threatened. Fear is specific and constructive Anxiety is diffuse. Where fear galvanizes you into action, anxiety debilitates you and paralyzes you so that you are unable to make a decision or act. Fear is a thunderstorm that passes back into sunlight and green grass. Anxiety is a cold drizzle, it’s 34 degrees and raining all the time so that your soul starts to mildew. Anxiety is a threat to your sense of self, when your identity and sense of security are eaten away. It’s deeper and more destructive." Tim Keller in https://youtu.be/-8tdA8YMOYM?t=586 [link starts at 9:46 min mark with definition from Rollo May, Keller’s story begins at 11:06] What if you take the next 18 months and make a solid contribution at work, help your people develop, and focus on making and meeting your commitments by keeping them small. Don't plan for home runs or large scale-ups. Think base hits and reliable performance. If "by any measure I am living the American dream" you should enjoy it. Zoom in for traction ("small predictable steps") and enjoy the ride. You can pick a date in late 2022 to start making a few medium size plans and see if you can get better at making and meeting commitments. My $0.02 your mileage may vary.

JasonCannon 5y ago

Meditate. Spend time doing nothing but breathing. Feel your breath as it enters and leaves your nostrils. Every time you catch yourself thinking about anything except for your breath entering and leaving your nostrils congratulate yourself for being mindful enough to catch that you've wandered and then return your thoughts back to your breathe. At first this will be hard to do for more than a couple of minutes. With time you can do it longer and longer. Then, when you start to feel anxiety rise up, stop. Breathe. Forget about the future forget about the projects forget about the expectations and the pressures you've placed on yourself. Just stop. And breathe. Focusing your mind intentionally on something will activate your prefrontal cortex which is responsible for logic and reasoning, and quiet your amygdala which is the fight or flight part of your brain. Chronic anxiety causes your amygdala to overactivate and meditation can help reverse that damage. Modern neuroscience backs this all up more and more. It won't feel like you are doing anything at first. But over time you will notice the effects. Also, like others have said. You don't NEED to do a venture to be successful. I don't. I am the exact opposite of the person who does that, and I am more successful than I could have ever hoped growing up. Many ways to find success in life. >Should I just move to a crappy little dark place and deprive myself of food and any pleasures/necessities (become hungry by choice) Under no circumstances should you ever do that. Ever. In a million years.

softwaredoug 5y ago

Sounds like your role doesn’t suit your skills. Which is fine: you can’t be all things to all people. Can you just be more open about your competencies at work? “I love to plan things and have ideas, but I suck at marketing them and hitting the launch button”. Maybe your an awesome planner that needs to be partnered with someone more open to risk? If they fire you for being honest about your skills, then what? You have won! You’ve gotten out of a role you’re not a great fit for freeing you up to find what’s best for you.

laurieg 5y ago

"Nobody believes me, not even my therapist." I wonder if you could expand on this point a little. What kind of therapists have you spoken to and what kind of conversations are you having with them?

pps 5y ago

Meditation (just focus on your internal state - breath, discomfort, feeling on skin, etc - for 15min a day, one day with eyes closed, one day with open), Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (read a workbook and do this by yourself everyday - Mind Over Mood by Padesky, Greenberger, would be my advice), breath work to help yourself quickly in the worst moments (look for Huberman Lab podcast videos on Youtube for things that are scientifically proven), and sleep, sleep, sleep as long as you need

SMAAART 5y ago

FOLLOW-UP: "Our main business is not to see what lies dimly at a distance, but to do what lies clearly at hand." Thank you everyone for chiming in with your high quality comments, I read and re-read them them all three time, and I thought about them as I was falling asleep, and as I woke up this morning. Observation about the comments: they are all high quality, and well intentioned. Observations about the discussion: I am not alone. I kind of knew it already. I wonder if the pervasiveness of my experience is actually wider and deeper than I/we though with greater and deeper ripple effects than we believe. A conspiracy theorist would state that it's not a bug in fabric of existence, but a feature in The Matrix, by The Matrix. Observations about me: WOW! I have been meaning to post something similar for days now, and I procrastinated for about 2 weeks. I am glad I posted it. I have been meaning to post this unpacking comment since last night, Anxiety got in the way. I have a personal blog where I write about this stuff, I have an article I me related to this, that wants to come out, but I'm letting Anxiety win and I have been procrastinating for a month or so now. TL;DR: This discussion added new levels of positive and active perspectives to my worldviews. My Action Item: "Our main business is not to see what lies dimly at a distance, but to do what lies clearly at hand." P.S.: Thank you for everyone who offered to be avail for me to reaching out, I'd love to but I am too chicken to do that, vulnerability scares the bejesus out of me.

codingclaws 5y ago

It seems like you need to focus on just a couple projects. I have been working on just one personal project for 2 years and it's a good feeling. Course the hardest part is finding the fortitude.

Abelton 5y ago

You sound like a nice guy, and that may be part of the problem. This book helped me correct that for myself. "No More Mr. Nice Guy" https://www.amazon.com/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy/dp/0762415339 https://www.amazon.com/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy/dp/0762415339