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short answer: they can. But - in Italy workers protection laws are very strong and it is an even stronger political topic, there are entire regions depending

short answer: they can. But - in Italy workers protection laws are very strong and it is an even stronger political topic, there are entire regions depending on the production chain of luxury Italian brands. Reconversion is not as easy as it looks. - it is like asking why US can't build an free and public health care system that works for everybody, it should be simple for the richest country in the World. And yet people like Daniel Desnoyers who missed a payment of $20 to the insurance company and had his prescription for depression meds denied, end up committing suicide.

melenaboija 5y ago
"short answer: they can" it seems to me is not the right answer. Competitors are doing it, the market trends seem to go towards this direction and the laws are being shaped to force it. And this has been for years now. I have heard several times that Ferrari was behind with the electric conversion and that was probably a mistake. Not sure if they were waiting for this exception or simply they could or they did not know how to make it.
- peoplefromibiza 5y ago
  > I have heard several times that Ferrari was behind with the electric conversion They are not technically behind, it is a political choice, the mother company (FCA) decided not to pursue that road for the time being (around 2016). Specifically the CEO Sergio Marchionne who also was CEO of Ferrari S.p.a. That was probably a wrong bet on his side, but knowing the guy and his talent in business, he would have probably fixed the situation if he had not died suddenly in 2018. Those who took his place are not as good as he was (I'm only referring to the skills as businessmen of course)
  - melenaboija 5y ago
    Agree, but I did not mean technically. If Rimac has been able to create electric super cars I guess they should be perfectly able to do it, it was mostly that they are behind because of the company decisions.
mmarq 5y ago
> - in Italy workers protection laws are very strong and it is an even stronger political topic, there are entire regions depending on the production chain of luxury Italian brands. Reconversion is not as easy as it looks. The main problem is not workers protection, which are quite stronger in Germany, but historical lack of innovation. The government gifted billions to the Italian automotive industry just to keep factories open, not to innovate or produce good cars. The result is an automotive sector that requires special exemptions otherwise it is at risk of dying. The expertise required to build a factory of high quality batteries probably doesn’t even exist in Italy and attracting engineers from abroad is extremely hard if the entry level salary of a German engineer is higher than the total compensation or an Italian engineer with 10 years of experience.
- peoplefromibiza 5y ago
  > The main problem is not workers protection, which are quite stronger in Germany, but historical lack of innovation As I've said, job retention is an even stronger political topic. nobody here wants to lose consent over cutting jobs. Lack of innovation is just the consequence of a very conservative work force. > and attracting engineers from abroad is extremely hard if the entry level salary That, exactly. It's not going to happen soon, even though it is technically feasible, it is hard to put the wheels in motion. Paraphrasing Charles M. Schulz: I love living in Italy and Italian life style, it's public opinion I can't stand. I am lucky enough to not have to deal with that daily.
  - mmarq 5y ago
    > As I've said, job retention is an even stronger political topic. > nobody here wants to lose consent over cutting jobs. I think there are a lot of misconceptions on workers protection in Italy. While older workers are protected, if they work in companies with more than 15 employees, this is not generally true anymore. > Lack of innovation is just the consequence of a very conservative work force. A huge number of people are hired with temporary contracts that are renewed yearly or even more often. Others are hired through body rental agencies, many others are effectively employed "at-will". Unpaid overtime is the norm. To be clear: this is true for engineers as well as for cleaners. These people can't be expected to produce any innovation. In the meanwhile, in political debates we pretend that Italian companies do not innovate and can't pay Western European salaries because they can't fire people.

melenaboija 5y ago

"short answer: they can" it seems to me is not the right answer. Competitors are doing it, the market trends seem to go towards this direction and the laws are being shaped to force it. And this has been for years now. I have heard several times that Ferrari was behind with the electric conversion and that was probably a mistake. Not sure if they were waiting for this exception or simply they could or they did not know how to make it.

peoplefromibiza 5y ago
> I have heard several times that Ferrari was behind with the electric conversion They are not technically behind, it is a political choice, the mother company (FCA) decided not to pursue that road for the time being (around 2016). Specifically the CEO Sergio Marchionne who also was CEO of Ferrari S.p.a. That was probably a wrong bet on his side, but knowing the guy and his talent in business, he would have probably fixed the situation if he had not died suddenly in 2018. Those who took his place are not as good as he was (I'm only referring to the skills as businessmen of course)
- melenaboija 5y ago
  Agree, but I did not mean technically. If Rimac has been able to create electric super cars I guess they should be perfectly able to do it, it was mostly that they are behind because of the company decisions.

mmarq 5y ago

> - in Italy workers protection laws are very strong and it is an even stronger political topic, there are entire regions depending on the production chain of luxury Italian brands. Reconversion is not as easy as it looks. The main problem is not workers protection, which are quite stronger in Germany, but historical lack of innovation. The government gifted billions to the Italian automotive industry just to keep factories open, not to innovate or produce good cars. The result is an automotive sector that requires special exemptions otherwise it is at risk of dying. The expertise required to build a factory of high quality batteries probably doesn’t even exist in Italy and attracting engineers from abroad is extremely hard if the entry level salary of a German engineer is higher than the total compensation or an Italian engineer with 10 years of experience.

peoplefromibiza 5y ago
> The main problem is not workers protection, which are quite stronger in Germany, but historical lack of innovation As I've said, job retention is an even stronger political topic. nobody here wants to lose consent over cutting jobs. Lack of innovation is just the consequence of a very conservative work force. > and attracting engineers from abroad is extremely hard if the entry level salary That, exactly. It's not going to happen soon, even though it is technically feasible, it is hard to put the wheels in motion. Paraphrasing Charles M. Schulz: I love living in Italy and Italian life style, it's public opinion I can't stand. I am lucky enough to not have to deal with that daily.
- mmarq 5y ago
  > As I've said, job retention is an even stronger political topic. > nobody here wants to lose consent over cutting jobs. I think there are a lot of misconceptions on workers protection in Italy. While older workers are protected, if they work in companies with more than 15 employees, this is not generally true anymore. > Lack of innovation is just the consequence of a very conservative work force. A huge number of people are hired with temporary contracts that are renewed yearly or even more often. Others are hired through body rental agencies, many others are effectively employed "at-will". Unpaid overtime is the norm. To be clear: this is true for engineers as well as for cleaners. These people can't be expected to produce any innovation. In the meanwhile, in political debates we pretend that Italian companies do not innovate and can't pay Western European salaries because they can't fire people.