4 ms·

Yesterday in Berlin pro-nuclear climate activists got attacked by the no-nuclear climate mob…

thriftwy 5y ago
I can never understand why attacks by "activists" do not result in dozens of arrests and convictions for multiple years of prison every time they happen. Isn't it basically what any sovereign law says?
- ChrisKnott 5y ago
  In most Western countries you won't go to prison at all, let alone for several years, for common assault. Maybe if you caused serious injury.
  - MichaelZuo 5y ago
    This is the first time I’ve heard of that. Which countries specifically won’t prosecute for randomly attacking and lightly injuring someone standing on the sidewalk or in a public park or some other gathering place?
    - rndgermandude 5y ago
      It's not about not prosecuting at all[0]. The sentences just are either fines or suspended prison sentences, so people stay out of prison, which I remarked about in my sibling comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28653514 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28653514 [0] Which may happen if the state thinks it cannot prove the allegation or the act was so minor, it would be a waste of everybody's time. But the "case dropped because too minor" doesn't usually happen in assaults, but more for non-violent things like riding the bus without a valid ticket or illegally downloading a few songs.
      - thriftwy 5y ago
        Suspended prison sentence should turn into a real one on repeated offence by the same "activist".
  - rndgermandude 5y ago
    Yeah. In Germany it starts with regular assault/battery ("Körperverletzung"). This is a fine up to 5 years imprisonment. But if you do the assault in a group or with a weapon or really any tool or it's a "sneaky" attack or the way you do it life-threatening it them becomes a "dangerous" assault ("gefährliche Körperverletzung") which has a prison sentence of 6 months to 10 years (3 months to 5 years for "less severe" cases) but it never ends in a fine. If you slap somebody, you'll likely get a fine, which is issued as "so and so many day's rates" (Tagessätze), which means e.g. you can get a fine of "20 day's rates" i.e. you'll have to pay the equivalent of 20 days worth of income, calculated based on your monthly net income divided by 30 days and capped at 1 EUR to 30000 EUR per day. A prison sentence can be issued as a suspended sentence if it is 24 months or less, which is up to the discretion of the judge(s). You only have to go to prison if you receive another prison sentence for another crime in a time frame specified by the judge, or if you violate any of the additional requirements a judge may issue. If I remember correctly about 70-80% of all prison sentences below 24 months are issued as suspended sentences, and only a tiny fraction of people end up going to prison because the suspension is lifted later for some reason. However realistically even the "dangerous" variant quite often ends in a light sentence of a couple of months which is then usually issued as a suspended sentence. This depends on what happened, the level of involvement and previous criminal history if any and whether you confess and show remorse. However, the suspension of a sentence is usually contiguous on you paying everything you owe, from damages for pain and suffering to the court fees.
- bserge 5y ago
  Usually that's called oppression and leads to bigger protests and riots.
  - thriftwy 5y ago
    Protests are okay. Riots should just cause more arrests and sentences. It's got to have some cutoff, isn't it? You can't just get away with attacking people.
- Ekaros 5y ago
  It should be considered terrorism automatically and carry such penalties.
  - lrae 5y ago
    https://youtu.be/kZRg0_B0XX4 https://youtu.be/kZRg0_B0XX4 - Yeah this absolutely looks like an act of terrorism! (Actually, on a serious note, the person going there with the sole goal of stirring up the protest is more likely the one to be the terrorist, no? I'd say taking away that sign and even potentially removing the person is actually de-escalating. But you should obviously let the police do that.)
    - Ekaros 5y ago
      Clearly violent attack that should not be tolerated in our society run by political goal of causing fear and terror in others. I hope the perpetrator rots in jail for years...
junon 5y ago
I live here and didn't hear about this. Have a link?
- danhor 5y ago
  This is the least bad source I have found: https://www.bz-berlin.de/berlin/mitte/bei-fridays-for-future-demo-in-berlin-atomkraft-aktivistin-attackiert https://www.bz-berlin.de/berlin/mitte/bei-fridays-for-future...
- ushakov 5y ago
  Bild Video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kZRg0_B0XX4 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kZRg0_B0XX4
lrae 5y ago
"attacked" Disclaimer first: Me = Pro nuclear. But if you try to take over a mainly also anti-nuclear demonstration with your messaging and stir up "the mob" with that, you probably should not call somebody taking away your "Nuclear against climate-change" sign an "attack by a no-nuclear climate mob"
- axiosgunnar 5y ago
  The demonstration is pro-climate protection. If the majority of the attendants is too dumb to see that nuclear mist be one of the pillars to protect the climate, that does not make it „anti-nuclear“.
lwkl 5y ago
What mob? It's one guy that violently took a sign from a woman (at least that's what can be seen in the video) and broke the sign. Nobody was hurt and the victim didn't even press charges. Most people seem to be minding their own business and getting out of the way. So not much to see there. Except a way for people that disagree with the protestors to reinforce their stereotypes or the daily fix of anger over nothing for tabloid readers?
- axiosgunnar 5y ago
  Are you out of your mind? Somebody violently grabbing the banner of a peaceful protestor is just one step away from physically assaulting that protestor. If you don't see the obvious red line crossed there, you are completely detached from reality and want to protecter the attacker just because he happens to claim to be green (but hypocritically so, if he is also against nuclear energy). Incredible, really. Finally, yes it is a mob as nobody from the bystanders did anything to stop the attacker, tacitly agreeing with what he did.
  - lwkl 5y ago
    I guess I must be out of my mind. I didn‘t realize I implied all of that in my previous. Now to the part of your comment that is on-topic: > Finally, yes it is a mob as nobody from the bystanders did anything to stop the attacker, tacitly agreeing with what he did. The bystanders did exactly what bystanders do. They stood by. That doesn‘t make them agree with the attacker. What would you habe done if you were there? I know I don‘t have the reflexes and fighting skills to stop this from happening. And I bet she had her friends helping her afterwards so there wouldn‘t have been any need to get involved.

I can never understand why attacks by "activists" do not result in dozens of arrests and convictions for multiple years of prison every time they happen. Isn't it basically what any sovereign law says?

ChrisKnott 5y ago
In most Western countries you won't go to prison at all, let alone for several years, for common assault. Maybe if you caused serious injury.
- MichaelZuo 5y ago
  This is the first time I’ve heard of that. Which countries specifically won’t prosecute for randomly attacking and lightly injuring someone standing on the sidewalk or in a public park or some other gathering place?
  - rndgermandude 5y ago
    It's not about not prosecuting at all[0]. The sentences just are either fines or suspended prison sentences, so people stay out of prison, which I remarked about in my sibling comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28653514 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28653514 [0] Which may happen if the state thinks it cannot prove the allegation or the act was so minor, it would be a waste of everybody's time. But the "case dropped because too minor" doesn't usually happen in assaults, but more for non-violent things like riding the bus without a valid ticket or illegally downloading a few songs.
    - thriftwy 5y ago
      Suspended prison sentence should turn into a real one on repeated offence by the same "activist".
- rndgermandude 5y ago
  Yeah. In Germany it starts with regular assault/battery ("Körperverletzung"). This is a fine up to 5 years imprisonment. But if you do the assault in a group or with a weapon or really any tool or it's a "sneaky" attack or the way you do it life-threatening it them becomes a "dangerous" assault ("gefährliche Körperverletzung") which has a prison sentence of 6 months to 10 years (3 months to 5 years for "less severe" cases) but it never ends in a fine. If you slap somebody, you'll likely get a fine, which is issued as "so and so many day's rates" (Tagessätze), which means e.g. you can get a fine of "20 day's rates" i.e. you'll have to pay the equivalent of 20 days worth of income, calculated based on your monthly net income divided by 30 days and capped at 1 EUR to 30000 EUR per day. A prison sentence can be issued as a suspended sentence if it is 24 months or less, which is up to the discretion of the judge(s). You only have to go to prison if you receive another prison sentence for another crime in a time frame specified by the judge, or if you violate any of the additional requirements a judge may issue. If I remember correctly about 70-80% of all prison sentences below 24 months are issued as suspended sentences, and only a tiny fraction of people end up going to prison because the suspension is lifted later for some reason. However realistically even the "dangerous" variant quite often ends in a light sentence of a couple of months which is then usually issued as a suspended sentence. This depends on what happened, the level of involvement and previous criminal history if any and whether you confess and show remorse. However, the suspension of a sentence is usually contiguous on you paying everything you owe, from damages for pain and suffering to the court fees.
bserge 5y ago
Usually that's called oppression and leads to bigger protests and riots.
- thriftwy 5y ago
  Protests are okay. Riots should just cause more arrests and sentences. It's got to have some cutoff, isn't it? You can't just get away with attacking people.
Ekaros 5y ago
It should be considered terrorism automatically and carry such penalties.
- lrae 5y ago
  https://youtu.be/kZRg0_B0XX4 https://youtu.be/kZRg0_B0XX4 - Yeah this absolutely looks like an act of terrorism! (Actually, on a serious note, the person going there with the sole goal of stirring up the protest is more likely the one to be the terrorist, no? I'd say taking away that sign and even potentially removing the person is actually de-escalating. But you should obviously let the police do that.)
  - Ekaros 5y ago
    Clearly violent attack that should not be tolerated in our society run by political goal of causing fear and terror in others. I hope the perpetrator rots in jail for years...

junon 5y ago

I live here and didn't hear about this. Have a link?

danhor 5y ago
This is the least bad source I have found: https://www.bz-berlin.de/berlin/mitte/bei-fridays-for-future-demo-in-berlin-atomkraft-aktivistin-attackiert https://www.bz-berlin.de/berlin/mitte/bei-fridays-for-future...
ushakov 5y ago
Bild Video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kZRg0_B0XX4 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kZRg0_B0XX4

lrae 5y ago

"attacked" Disclaimer first: Me = Pro nuclear. But if you try to take over a mainly also anti-nuclear demonstration with your messaging and stir up "the mob" with that, you probably should not call somebody taking away your "Nuclear against climate-change" sign an "attack by a no-nuclear climate mob"

axiosgunnar 5y ago
The demonstration is pro-climate protection. If the majority of the attendants is too dumb to see that nuclear mist be one of the pillars to protect the climate, that does not make it „anti-nuclear“.

lwkl 5y ago

What mob? It's one guy that violently took a sign from a woman (at least that's what can be seen in the video) and broke the sign. Nobody was hurt and the victim didn't even press charges. Most people seem to be minding their own business and getting out of the way. So not much to see there. Except a way for people that disagree with the protestors to reinforce their stereotypes or the daily fix of anger over nothing for tabloid readers?

axiosgunnar 5y ago
Are you out of your mind? Somebody violently grabbing the banner of a peaceful protestor is just one step away from physically assaulting that protestor. If you don't see the obvious red line crossed there, you are completely detached from reality and want to protecter the attacker just because he happens to claim to be green (but hypocritically so, if he is also against nuclear energy). Incredible, really. Finally, yes it is a mob as nobody from the bystanders did anything to stop the attacker, tacitly agreeing with what he did.
- lwkl 5y ago
  I guess I must be out of my mind. I didn‘t realize I implied all of that in my previous. Now to the part of your comment that is on-topic: > Finally, yes it is a mob as nobody from the bystanders did anything to stop the attacker, tacitly agreeing with what he did. The bystanders did exactly what bystanders do. They stood by. That doesn‘t make them agree with the attacker. What would you habe done if you were there? I know I don‘t have the reflexes and fighting skills to stop this from happening. And I bet she had her friends helping her afterwards so there wouldn‘t have been any need to get involved.