4 ms·

(first let me say I'm all for the ban if ICE are banned and I'm against an exception for Ferrari). But.. common... everybody knows oldtimers cars aren't really

(first let me say I'm all for the ban if ICE are banned and I'm against an exception for Ferrari). But.. common... everybody knows oldtimers cars aren't really on the road. Most collectible cars belong to people who own several cars and they very rarely hit the road. That is precisely why the insurance is so cheap. I've got both an old Porsche and an old Ferrari and I pay 160 EUR a year to insure them both (100 for the first one, and 60 for the second one, as I've got a "fleet": two is a fleet, that's kinda funny). People not only never drive these cars, they're also ultra cautious with them when they take them out. It's because they do so little kilometers/miles yearly and because people are so cautious that the insurance costs next to nothing. They're more art pieces / garage queens than cars: remnants of a less civilized era. Also... My insurance is ultra cheap but there's a gotcha: I need to have an insured daily less than 15 years old, otherwise I need to pay the regular insurance price for my two oldtimers. So it's not really true that people pay less: they pay less but only because they need to have a "real" car to benefit from the cheaper insurance. These old cars are also typically huge gaz guzzlers, doing easily 3x to 4x the fuel consumption of a modern car: so using it on a daily basis would, in the end, cost you much much more than using a modern car. I hope these exceptions for oldtimers will stay and that, at least once in a while, they'll be authorized on the road: say maybe allowed on the roads one saturday every month or something like that. P.S: btw it's not just the insurance that is cheaper: oldtimers are typically exempt from the yearly road tax (in the countries where such a tax exists).

vladvasiliu 5y ago
> But.. common... everybody knows oldtimers cars aren't really on the road. Most collectible cars belong to people who own several cars and they very rarely hit the road. That's true. And I actually think that maybe the issue isn't that we drive around in ICE cars, but rather that we drive around. Sure, there are people with mobility issues, delivery, etc. I'm not talking about those, since I think they're not the majority of traffic, so likely not a huge problem. I'm talking about "regular people". I think the issue is that the vast majority of traffic is people commuting to work, so instead of trying to build a faster horse (use cars that pollute less) there should be more emphasis on actually driving less. By that I mean encouraging companies to allow working from home and developing public transportation. The issue with laws like this is that they don't take into account the various situations. In my case, I own a motorcycle that won't be allowed in Paris and other major French cities starting in 2024. I rarely use it during the week since I actually commute by transit. But I sometimes go on long trips and stay overnight in big cities. I wouldn't be allowed to. Would buying a new motorcycle, which I don't need since my current one works perfectly, be actually good for the environment? Sure, it would probably pollute somewhat less per km ridden, but it would have to be produced in the first place and then shipped halfway around the world.
jacquesm 5y ago
> doing easily 3x to 4x the fuel consumption of a modern car No, that's because of the type of car, not because of the age, a Ferrari or a Porsche made today will still consume a lot of fuel compared to a more normal car made today. They've always been gas guzzlers simply because an engine that can make that kind of power isn't going to be made for fuel economy and the drivers don't care because typically money for gas isn't very high on their priority list. I'm curious what type Ferrari and what type Porsche you've got, are you willing to disclose?

vladvasiliu 5y ago

> But.. common... everybody knows oldtimers cars aren't really on the road. Most collectible cars belong to people who own several cars and they very rarely hit the road. That's true. And I actually think that maybe the issue isn't that we drive around in ICE cars, but rather that we drive around. Sure, there are people with mobility issues, delivery, etc. I'm not talking about those, since I think they're not the majority of traffic, so likely not a huge problem. I'm talking about "regular people". I think the issue is that the vast majority of traffic is people commuting to work, so instead of trying to build a faster horse (use cars that pollute less) there should be more emphasis on actually driving less. By that I mean encouraging companies to allow working from home and developing public transportation. The issue with laws like this is that they don't take into account the various situations. In my case, I own a motorcycle that won't be allowed in Paris and other major French cities starting in 2024. I rarely use it during the week since I actually commute by transit. But I sometimes go on long trips and stay overnight in big cities. I wouldn't be allowed to. Would buying a new motorcycle, which I don't need since my current one works perfectly, be actually good for the environment? Sure, it would probably pollute somewhat less per km ridden, but it would have to be produced in the first place and then shipped halfway around the world.

jacquesm 5y ago

> doing easily 3x to 4x the fuel consumption of a modern car No, that's because of the type of car, not because of the age, a Ferrari or a Porsche made today will still consume a lot of fuel compared to a more normal car made today. They've always been gas guzzlers simply because an engine that can make that kind of power isn't going to be made for fuel economy and the drivers don't care because typically money for gas isn't very high on their priority list. I'm curious what type Ferrari and what type Porsche you've got, are you willing to disclose?