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I'm not sure how valuable this is really. Most people, I assume, would wholeheartedly agree but since the CC culprits are not 'Christians who cause climate chan

I'm not sure how valuable this is really. Most people, I assume, would wholeheartedly agree but since the CC culprits are not 'Christians who cause climate change', then the pope or Archbishop saying what loads of other people are saying is neither surprising nor worth it. Personally, I would like to see practical ways of acually reducing fossil fuel demands but this is much harder for the church, except in their own properties, and easier for governments.

magicroot75 5y ago
Do you believe anything the CC says is surprising and worth it?
ethbr0 5y ago
There's still a substantial portion of customers who are Christians though. And various religious movements have had their moments of realizing economic change by educating and motivating their adherents to demand it. (E.g. racial equality boycotts)
fsiefken 5y ago
there are 1.33 billion catholics in the world
- legutierr 5y ago
  Yes, and 25% of the US population is Catholic, half of which group votes Republican (i.e., against reforms designed to prevent or slow climate change). If more people come to believe that they have a moral obligation to do what they can to prevent climate change—including by supporting government interventions and investments, and gracefully accepting higher energy costs and energy taxes—then maybe we can hope for a break in the political logjam that is preventing energy reforms from being implemented in the United States. Papal infallibility today doesn't seem to be what it was in the past in the minds of many American Catholics, however. There has been a surprising amount of direct criticism of the pope among conservative American Catholics in recent years, many of whom seem to place their political loyalties ahead of their loyalty to the church (which I have found surprising).
  - mercy_dude 5y ago
    > half of which group votes Republican (i.e., against reforms designed to prevent or slow climate change). That’s a very cynical statement. Goes to show why both sides will never meet in the middle of the road with thinking that way. Voting republicans doesn’t mean I am against climate change reforms. The issue at hand is how practically we deal with it and reduce demands on fossil fuel and transition to clean energy. Policies touted by a lot of left leaning politicians aren’t practical and many of them know it but they say it anyway. Look at California and its recent outages to any demand spike of utilities as an example.
    - dangsface 5y ago
      From what I understand, cynical doesn't mean a lack of truth. So when you say it is cynical, what you are saying is that cynicism shouldn't be allowed. I loathe this world of fake humans constantly pretending to be delusionally optimistic. I don't have real conversations anymore. Saying "that's a very cynical statement" shows that we have to constantly lie to one another. I hope you realize this
    - input_sh 5y ago
      > Policies touted by a lot of left leaning politicians aren’t practical and many of them know it but they say it anyway. Your point stands, Democrat solutions addressing climate change are definitely pretty bad. That being said, at least they have some climate change policies they're pushing for right now instead of kicking the can down the road. Can you honestly say the same about Republicans?
      - ArchStanton 5y ago
        Considering that the US share of greenhouse gases is fairly small (15% of world total), has decreased quite a lot over time, and becomes harder on the margin, I'd say it's mostly just slinging words for political power at this point. My own take is that you can avoid ecological devastation only through population reduction and in the short term by not up-leveling the Third World via mass immigration and industrialization.
jl6 5y ago
One step at a time. Not even the Pope, alone, is going to solve this, but every bit of support adds to the critical mass of people calling for change.
- fascistusa 5y ago
  What does talking do? How is talking an actionable thing? It seems the majority of people are talking about making change. One more person doesn't make a difference if no one is doing anything.
angelzen 5y ago
Nit. Ambiguity. CC = Climate Change CC = Catholic Church
williamtrask 5y ago
This is pretty cynical. The Christian church has guided the way in which many people live for thousands of years, and a cross-denominational, united stance against climate change from its leadership is likely to have impact. Certainly a positive development.
- roenxi 5y ago
  It is rather cynical but also rather accurate to note that people like being warm in winter, and the Catholic Church is not going to make environmentalism their core mission. They already have a core mission, it involves human souls. The environmentalists have faced stiff resistance in my life time not because anyone likes coal or oil, but because there were no alternatives. It isn't like the Catholics have ever had a point of doctrine like "and yea, your electricity shall only be sourced from fuels that are greater than 60% carbon by mass, for the atomic number 6 is especially holy!". They already have a longer term time horizon than most nations.
  - jimktrains2 5y ago
    > Catholic Church is not going to make environmentalism their core mission Being a good steward of nature is and has been a very important part of Catholic doctrine for a very long time.
    - fascistusa 5y ago
      Was this before or after helping the Nazi party?
    - conductr 5y ago
      Yet here we are, how does this improve the situation? I hold a cynical view as to the influence religion has on this particular subject as well. I view religion as a large corporation, they have finally realized the long term impact of CC will be bad for business. Just like corporate BODs they are increasingly asking management to put forth a climate strategy. And investment firms that are moving their portfolio away from fossil fuel, it’s just modern corporate policy to have a stance that protects shareholder value in the long term. But really it’s just something to point to when asked “what are you doing about the climate?” A bit of a rant there, but to reiterate, I don’t see how this influences action in a meaningful way. I’m glad they are doing it, it’s better than not.

magicroot75 5y ago

Do you believe anything the CC says is surprising and worth it?

ethbr0 5y ago

There's still a substantial portion of customers who are Christians though. And various religious movements have had their moments of realizing economic change by educating and motivating their adherents to demand it. (E.g. racial equality boycotts)

fsiefken 5y ago

there are 1.33 billion catholics in the world

legutierr 5y ago
Yes, and 25% of the US population is Catholic, half of which group votes Republican (i.e., against reforms designed to prevent or slow climate change). If more people come to believe that they have a moral obligation to do what they can to prevent climate change—including by supporting government interventions and investments, and gracefully accepting higher energy costs and energy taxes—then maybe we can hope for a break in the political logjam that is preventing energy reforms from being implemented in the United States. Papal infallibility today doesn't seem to be what it was in the past in the minds of many American Catholics, however. There has been a surprising amount of direct criticism of the pope among conservative American Catholics in recent years, many of whom seem to place their political loyalties ahead of their loyalty to the church (which I have found surprising).
- mercy_dude 5y ago
  > half of which group votes Republican (i.e., against reforms designed to prevent or slow climate change). That’s a very cynical statement. Goes to show why both sides will never meet in the middle of the road with thinking that way. Voting republicans doesn’t mean I am against climate change reforms. The issue at hand is how practically we deal with it and reduce demands on fossil fuel and transition to clean energy. Policies touted by a lot of left leaning politicians aren’t practical and many of them know it but they say it anyway. Look at California and its recent outages to any demand spike of utilities as an example.
  - dangsface 5y ago
    From what I understand, cynical doesn't mean a lack of truth. So when you say it is cynical, what you are saying is that cynicism shouldn't be allowed. I loathe this world of fake humans constantly pretending to be delusionally optimistic. I don't have real conversations anymore. Saying "that's a very cynical statement" shows that we have to constantly lie to one another. I hope you realize this
  - input_sh 5y ago
    > Policies touted by a lot of left leaning politicians aren’t practical and many of them know it but they say it anyway. Your point stands, Democrat solutions addressing climate change are definitely pretty bad. That being said, at least they have some climate change policies they're pushing for right now instead of kicking the can down the road. Can you honestly say the same about Republicans?
    - ArchStanton 5y ago
      Considering that the US share of greenhouse gases is fairly small (15% of world total), has decreased quite a lot over time, and becomes harder on the margin, I'd say it's mostly just slinging words for political power at this point. My own take is that you can avoid ecological devastation only through population reduction and in the short term by not up-leveling the Third World via mass immigration and industrialization.

jl6 5y ago

One step at a time. Not even the Pope, alone, is going to solve this, but every bit of support adds to the critical mass of people calling for change.

fascistusa 5y ago
What does talking do? How is talking an actionable thing? It seems the majority of people are talking about making change. One more person doesn't make a difference if no one is doing anything.

angelzen 5y ago

Nit. Ambiguity. CC = Climate Change CC = Catholic Church

williamtrask 5y ago

This is pretty cynical. The Christian church has guided the way in which many people live for thousands of years, and a cross-denominational, united stance against climate change from its leadership is likely to have impact. Certainly a positive development.

roenxi 5y ago
It is rather cynical but also rather accurate to note that people like being warm in winter, and the Catholic Church is not going to make environmentalism their core mission. They already have a core mission, it involves human souls. The environmentalists have faced stiff resistance in my life time not because anyone likes coal or oil, but because there were no alternatives. It isn't like the Catholics have ever had a point of doctrine like "and yea, your electricity shall only be sourced from fuels that are greater than 60% carbon by mass, for the atomic number 6 is especially holy!". They already have a longer term time horizon than most nations.
- jimktrains2 5y ago
  > Catholic Church is not going to make environmentalism their core mission Being a good steward of nature is and has been a very important part of Catholic doctrine for a very long time.
  - fascistusa 5y ago
    Was this before or after helping the Nazi party?
  - conductr 5y ago
    Yet here we are, how does this improve the situation? I hold a cynical view as to the influence religion has on this particular subject as well. I view religion as a large corporation, they have finally realized the long term impact of CC will be bad for business. Just like corporate BODs they are increasingly asking management to put forth a climate strategy. And investment firms that are moving their portfolio away from fossil fuel, it’s just modern corporate policy to have a stance that protects shareholder value in the long term. But really it’s just something to point to when asked “what are you doing about the climate?” A bit of a rant there, but to reiterate, I don’t see how this influences action in a meaningful way. I’m glad they are doing it, it’s better than not.