4 ms·

payID has KYC just the same as crypto but crypto is globally accessible, cheaper and just as fast to receive crypto you don't even need KYC actually, just to o

by toolz 5y ago

payID has KYC just the same as crypto but crypto is globally accessible, cheaper and just as fast to receive crypto you don't even need KYC actually, just to on-ramp from fiat...and if you mine crypto you don't even need KYC - so again there is no category in which crypto loses and categories where crypto clearly wins

shakna 5y ago
Flat fee of 20c/10k sounds cheaper than crypto to me. No on-ramp, because payID works for any fiat account that can be linked to Mastercard or Visa sounds more accessible to me. No specific KYC as its backed by existing banking infrastructure. I do not see how crypto possibly wins this one.
- easrng 5y ago
  You can locate, download, install, and set up a crypto wallet and be ready to accept payments in under 2 minutes. (I just did.) Setting up a bank account is far more involved.
  - shakna 5y ago
    But most people _already_ have a bank account. Which means they don't have to set up to use payID. They already can.
  - perl4ever 5y ago
    >You can locate, download, install, and set up a crypto wallet I was under the impression you had to download the blockchain for e.g. bitcoin before you could engage in transactions. Which is something like 350 GB at this point. And then do some processing that takes a while. Surely this takes a lot more than two minutes. If you didn't do that, do you really have a crypto wallet?
    - toolz 5y ago
      you don't have to be a synced, full node to have a wallet that you alone have full control over So to answer your question, yes I actually own the wallet and no it didn't take more than a minute at most for many different coins
      - perl4ever 5y ago
        If you're not a "full node" then you have to trust them, don't you? The whole trustless thing goes out the window. So I'm not sure about that "full control" thing.
        toolz 5y ago
        no, you don't have to be a full node to have complete control of your wallet because of asymmetric cryptography. You hold the private key to your wallet and without that private key no one can spend your funds. It's not terribly different than if you were to encrypt some file and put it out on the cloud and delete it locally - as long as you have access to the cloud, you are the only one who can make sense of that file with your decryption key. The distributed network of the blockchain is what ensures you'll have access to a node because most crypto coins have very distributed nodes.
        perl4ever 5y ago
        But which chain? From what I read, it's very important to distinguish between the true chain which full nodes can come to consensus on based on proof of work, and a possible attacker chain which is longer, but low effort. https://cryptoservices.github.io/blockchain/consensus/2019/05/21/bitcoin-length-weight-confusion.html https://cryptoservices.github.io/blockchain/consensus/2019/0... And I believe I've read that, when you aren't running a full node, you have to just assume the longest chain is the right one. I mean, all that data is the chain, right? If you don't process it, you have to assume other nodes are trustworthy. What you are saying about complete control sounds to me like if I said I have complete control over my bank account, in the sense nobody can guess my password, but maybe the bank is fake and I'm not even trying to check.
toolz 5y ago
You need to research lightening network for bitcoin if you think that sounds cheaper. I'm sorry, but that's just easily not the case. 80% of the world is not more accessible when the alternative is practically 100% of the world. also there's no on or off ramp for crypto when you can use it as currency, which is the direction the world is headed. edit: I'm googling and apparently payID isn't even international. This isn't really even a comparison. I don't know why you believe otherwise.
- shakna 5y ago
  > You need to research lightening network for bitcoin if you think that sounds cheaper. I'm sorry, but that's just easily not the case. Any in-network payID transaction is 0-fees. Whilst lightning does occasionally have negative fees, the fluctuation of Bitcoin means that the fees aren't cheaper in the end. > 80% of the world is not more accessible when the alternative is practically 100% of the world. Anywhere with a relationship with Mastercard or Visa is more accessible to most people _today_. Because they absolutely would have to generate or convert fiat to end up with Bitcoin, but have to do absolutely nothing to make use of payID. You can come back and use that argument if Bitcoin turns around and becomes the defacto currency, but otherwise it falls short. Most people today, have to do nothing to use payID. They have to do something, to use Bitcoin. > edit: I'm googling and apparently payID isn't even international. This isn't really even a comparison. I don't know why you believe otherwise. Because it's a set of banking protocols that are international. [0][1][2][3][4][5] [0] https://www.ecb.europa.eu/paym/integration/retail/instant_payments/html/index.en.html https://www.ecb.europa.eu/paym/integration/retail/instant_pa... [1] https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/what-we-do/sepa-instant-credit-transfer https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/what-we-do/sepa-insta... [2] https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2020/08/31/fednow-the-federal-reserves-planned-instant-payments-service/ https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2020/08/31/fednow-the-federa... [3] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-13/new-payments-platform-are-instant-bank-transfers-safe-to-use/9442920 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-13/new-payments-platform... [4] https://rg.ru/2019/01/28/v-rossii-zapustili-sistemu-bystryh-platezhej.html https://rg.ru/2019/01/28/v-rossii-zapustili-sistemu-bystryh-... [5] http://www.npci.org.in/what-we-do/upi/product-overview http://www.npci.org.in/what-we-do/upi/product-overview

by toolz 5y ago

shakna 5y ago

Flat fee of 20c/10k sounds cheaper than crypto to me. No on-ramp, because payID works for any fiat account that can be linked to Mastercard or Visa sounds more accessible to me. No specific KYC as its backed by existing banking infrastructure. I do not see how crypto possibly wins this one.

easrng 5y ago
You can locate, download, install, and set up a crypto wallet and be ready to accept payments in under 2 minutes. (I just did.) Setting up a bank account is far more involved.
- shakna 5y ago
  But most people _already_ have a bank account. Which means they don't have to set up to use payID. They already can.
- perl4ever 5y ago
  >You can locate, download, install, and set up a crypto wallet I was under the impression you had to download the blockchain for e.g. bitcoin before you could engage in transactions. Which is something like 350 GB at this point. And then do some processing that takes a while. Surely this takes a lot more than two minutes. If you didn't do that, do you really have a crypto wallet?
  - toolz 5y ago
    you don't have to be a synced, full node to have a wallet that you alone have full control over So to answer your question, yes I actually own the wallet and no it didn't take more than a minute at most for many different coins
    - perl4ever 5y ago
      If you're not a "full node" then you have to trust them, don't you? The whole trustless thing goes out the window. So I'm not sure about that "full control" thing.
      - toolz 5y ago
        no, you don't have to be a full node to have complete control of your wallet because of asymmetric cryptography. You hold the private key to your wallet and without that private key no one can spend your funds. It's not terribly different than if you were to encrypt some file and put it out on the cloud and delete it locally - as long as you have access to the cloud, you are the only one who can make sense of that file with your decryption key. The distributed network of the blockchain is what ensures you'll have access to a node because most crypto coins have very distributed nodes.
        perl4ever 5y ago
        But which chain? From what I read, it's very important to distinguish between the true chain which full nodes can come to consensus on based on proof of work, and a possible attacker chain which is longer, but low effort. https://cryptoservices.github.io/blockchain/consensus/2019/05/21/bitcoin-length-weight-confusion.html https://cryptoservices.github.io/blockchain/consensus/2019/0... And I believe I've read that, when you aren't running a full node, you have to just assume the longest chain is the right one. I mean, all that data is the chain, right? If you don't process it, you have to assume other nodes are trustworthy. What you are saying about complete control sounds to me like if I said I have complete control over my bank account, in the sense nobody can guess my password, but maybe the bank is fake and I'm not even trying to check.

toolz 5y ago

You need to research lightening network for bitcoin if you think that sounds cheaper. I'm sorry, but that's just easily not the case. 80% of the world is not more accessible when the alternative is practically 100% of the world. also there's no on or off ramp for crypto when you can use it as currency, which is the direction the world is headed. edit: I'm googling and apparently payID isn't even international. This isn't really even a comparison. I don't know why you believe otherwise.

shakna 5y ago
> You need to research lightening network for bitcoin if you think that sounds cheaper. I'm sorry, but that's just easily not the case. Any in-network payID transaction is 0-fees. Whilst lightning does occasionally have negative fees, the fluctuation of Bitcoin means that the fees aren't cheaper in the end. > 80% of the world is not more accessible when the alternative is practically 100% of the world. Anywhere with a relationship with Mastercard or Visa is more accessible to most people _today_. Because they absolutely would have to generate or convert fiat to end up with Bitcoin, but have to do absolutely nothing to make use of payID. You can come back and use that argument if Bitcoin turns around and becomes the defacto currency, but otherwise it falls short. Most people today, have to do nothing to use payID. They have to do something, to use Bitcoin. > edit: I'm googling and apparently payID isn't even international. This isn't really even a comparison. I don't know why you believe otherwise. Because it's a set of banking protocols that are international. [0][1][2][3][4][5] [0] https://www.ecb.europa.eu/paym/integration/retail/instant_payments/html/index.en.html https://www.ecb.europa.eu/paym/integration/retail/instant_pa... [1] https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/what-we-do/sepa-instant-credit-transfer https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/what-we-do/sepa-insta... [2] https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2020/08/31/fednow-the-federal-reserves-planned-instant-payments-service/ https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2020/08/31/fednow-the-federa... [3] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-13/new-payments-platform-are-instant-bank-transfers-safe-to-use/9442920 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-13/new-payments-platform... [4] https://rg.ru/2019/01/28/v-rossii-zapustili-sistemu-bystryh-platezhej.html https://rg.ru/2019/01/28/v-rossii-zapustili-sistemu-bystryh-... [5] http://www.npci.org.in/what-we-do/upi/product-overview http://www.npci.org.in/what-we-do/upi/product-overview