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Since 2001, and through the other numerous times that this this argument(s?) has been posted on HN (thank you @dang for the links) - how have things changed for

Since 2001, and through the other numerous times that this this argument(s?) has been posted on HN (thank you @dang for the links) - how have things changed for the better? Its time to stop thinking that posting "arguments against" something is somehow equivalent to making a difference, and start making a difference for real.

vegetablepotpie 5y ago
> start making a difference for real What is the actionable advice here? Go the technical route and develop countermeasures to facial recognition? And then play the cat mouse game of counter-counter measures, and making counter-counter-counter measures to those counter-counter measures until the facial recognition is as good as humans? Then what? Or do we go the political route and try to affect legislation? What I’ve learned from reducing climate change is that politicians only listen to you if you represent a group of people. Building coalition’s are a must for any kind of political change. We do build them, for tech people, on HN by posting articles against facial recognition. The thing we’re missing here is a way to organize collective action. But I think YC would want to avoid the kind of attention that would generate, so I think the site is designed against incentivizing that.
- kgwxd 5y ago
  The actionable advice is to start posting "arguments against posting arguments against something".
- jrm4 5y ago
  Mostly the latter, I think. Also just the "public perception" space (which these days, you'd think would be a pretty easy sell, given vaccine skepticism and all, but maybe not?")
- conspiracist 5y ago
  You've eloquently buried in there a number of problems. But I would like to make one change to what you just mentioned: it's not that politicians only listen if you represent a group of people. Politicians listen to power and money, first and foremost (and not always in that order). Everything else is secondary. That you're on a website that is designed against incentivizing collective action, and yet tries to pass itself off as a bastion of, well, let's call it practical and realistic rhetoric most of the time, is part of the problem. You're not going to find collective action anywhere because the moment you do, "they" are going to insert themselves into the collective to try to sabotage and break apart. "They" have decades worth of experience at it and don't mind killing people left and right, either. The actionable advice, for this community, would be to put all that great intelligence together and try to come up with a way to subvert whatever opposition would stand in the way of a collective action. I don't know if there's money in it so sadly it probably couldn't be a YC backed start up. Quite the contrary - the money would most likely try to kill you, but nevermind that.

vegetablepotpie 5y ago

> start making a difference for real What is the actionable advice here? Go the technical route and develop countermeasures to facial recognition? And then play the cat mouse game of counter-counter measures, and making counter-counter-counter measures to those counter-counter measures until the facial recognition is as good as humans? Then what? Or do we go the political route and try to affect legislation? What I’ve learned from reducing climate change is that politicians only listen to you if you represent a group of people. Building coalition’s are a must for any kind of political change. We do build them, for tech people, on HN by posting articles against facial recognition. The thing we’re missing here is a way to organize collective action. But I think YC would want to avoid the kind of attention that would generate, so I think the site is designed against incentivizing that.

kgwxd 5y ago
The actionable advice is to start posting "arguments against posting arguments against something".
jrm4 5y ago
Mostly the latter, I think. Also just the "public perception" space (which these days, you'd think would be a pretty easy sell, given vaccine skepticism and all, but maybe not?")
conspiracist 5y ago
You've eloquently buried in there a number of problems. But I would like to make one change to what you just mentioned: it's not that politicians only listen if you represent a group of people. Politicians listen to power and money, first and foremost (and not always in that order). Everything else is secondary. That you're on a website that is designed against incentivizing collective action, and yet tries to pass itself off as a bastion of, well, let's call it practical and realistic rhetoric most of the time, is part of the problem. You're not going to find collective action anywhere because the moment you do, "they" are going to insert themselves into the collective to try to sabotage and break apart. "They" have decades worth of experience at it and don't mind killing people left and right, either. The actionable advice, for this community, would be to put all that great intelligence together and try to come up with a way to subvert whatever opposition would stand in the way of a collective action. I don't know if there's money in it so sadly it probably couldn't be a YC backed start up. Quite the contrary - the money would most likely try to kill you, but nevermind that.