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You lost me at “fabricated Steele dossier” because as I was closely following everything Muller related in real time, including reading all 300+ pages of the re

You lost me at “fabricated Steele dossier” because as I was closely following everything Muller related in real time, including reading all 300+ pages of the report (which it seems few bothered to do) one thing became abundantly clear is that Steele got it so much closer than anyone could have expected

leereeves 5y ago
The Mueller report concluded: "Ultimately, the investigation did not establish that the Campaign coordinated or conspired with the Russian government in its election-interference activities." How do you square that with the Steele report, which alleged exactly that? Steele and Mueller may have agreed about some details, but not about the primary claim.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- WoahNoun 5y ago
  Yea because Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort coordinated through KGB asset Konstantin Kilimnik, as documented in the Republican-led Senate intelligence report, and not directly with the Russian government.
  - leereeves 5y ago
    The only allegation I've ever heard is that Manafort shared polling data with Kilimnik. I'd hardly call that coordinating election interference, and apparently Mueller agreed because he knew about the polling data and still reached the conclusion above.[1] And in the interest of accuracy you should also mention that Manafort was only campaign manager for two months, from June 20 to August 19 of 2016, and he was removed from the campaign, reportedly, because of his Russian connections. "On August 17, 2016, Trump received his first security briefing. The same day, August 17, Trump shook up his campaign organization in a way that appeared to minimize Manafort's role. It was reported that members of Trump's family, particularly Kushner, who had originally been a strong backer of Manafort, had become uneasy about his Russian connections and suspected that he had not been forthright about them. Manafort stated in an internal staff memorandum that he would "remain the campaign chairman and chief strategist, providing the big-picture, long-range campaign vision". However, two days later, Trump announced his acceptance of Manafort's resignation from the campaign after Steve Bannon and Kellyanne Conway took on senior leadership roles within that campaign."[2] 1: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/paul-manafort-mueller-investigation-konstantin-kilimnik_n_5c337efce4b09b02cb328230?2ou= https://www.huffpost.com/entry/paul-manafort-mueller-investi... 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Manafort#Chairman_of_Trump's_2016_campaign https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Manafort#Chairman_of_Trum...
    - momdad420 5y ago
      Lmao you so desperately want to make it nothing
- WoahNoun 5y ago
  That was NOT Mueller's conclusion. That was Bill Barr's politically motivated summary of the Mueller report. Mueller concluded there was contacts between Trump campaign and the Russians government but it wasn't enough evidence to successfully prosecute. The actual Mueller report says: >As explained in Section IV above, the Office’s investigation uncovered evidence of numerous links (i.e., contacts) between Trump Campaign officials and individuals having or claiming to have ties to the Russian government. The Office evaluated the contacts under several sets of federal laws, including conspiracy laws and statutes governing foreign agents who operate in the United States. After considering the available evidence, the Office did not pursue charges under these statutes against any of the individuals discussed in Section IV above—with the exception of FARA charges against Paul Manafort and Richard Gates based on their activities on behalf of Ukraine. >One of the interactions between the Trump Campaign and Russian-affiliated individuals—the June 9, 2016 meeting between high-ranking campaign officials and Russians promising derogatory information on Hillary Clinton—implicates an additional body of law: campaign finance statutes. Schemes involving the solicitation or receipt of assistance from foreign sources raise difficult statutory and constitutional questions. As explained below, the Office evaluated those questions in connection with the June 9 meeting [REDACTED]. The Office ultimately concluded that, even if the principal legal questions were resolved favorably to the government, a prosecution would encounter difficulties proving that Campaign officials or Investigative Technique individuals connected to the Campaign willfully violated the law. >Finally, although the evidence of contacts between Campaign officials and Russia affiliated individuals may not have been sufficient to establish or sustain criminal charges, several U.S. persons connected to the Campaign made false statements about those contacts and took other steps to obstruct the Office’s investigation and those of Congress. This Office has therefore charged some of those individuals with making false statements and obstructing justice.
  - leereeves 5y ago
    > That was NOT Mueller's conclusion. Don't spread misinformation, that was a DIRECT QUOTE from the Mueller report: "Ultimately, the investigation did not establish that the Campaign coordinated or conspired with the Russian government in its election-interference activities." You can see it in [1] or [2] or in the report itself. So there were a few contacts. So what? Presidential campaigns talk to a lot of people and don't vet them all in advance. As your own quote says: "After considering the available evidence, the Office did not pursue charges under these statutes against any of the individuals discussed in Section IV above—with the exception of FARA charges against Paul Manafort and Richard Gates based on their activities on behalf of Ukraine [not Russia]." 1: https://www.factcheck.org/2019/04/what-the-mueller-report-says-about-russian-contacts/ https://www.factcheck.org/2019/04/what-the-mueller-report-sa... 2: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2019/apr/18/mueller-report-trump-russia-key-takeaways https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2019/apr/...

leereeves 5y ago

The Mueller report concluded: "Ultimately, the investigation did not establish that the Campaign coordinated or conspired with the Russian government in its election-interference activities." How do you square that with the Steele report, which alleged exactly that? Steele and Mueller may have agreed about some details, but not about the primary claim.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
WoahNoun 5y ago
Yea because Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort coordinated through KGB asset Konstantin Kilimnik, as documented in the Republican-led Senate intelligence report, and not directly with the Russian government.
- leereeves 5y ago
  The only allegation I've ever heard is that Manafort shared polling data with Kilimnik. I'd hardly call that coordinating election interference, and apparently Mueller agreed because he knew about the polling data and still reached the conclusion above.[1] And in the interest of accuracy you should also mention that Manafort was only campaign manager for two months, from June 20 to August 19 of 2016, and he was removed from the campaign, reportedly, because of his Russian connections. "On August 17, 2016, Trump received his first security briefing. The same day, August 17, Trump shook up his campaign organization in a way that appeared to minimize Manafort's role. It was reported that members of Trump's family, particularly Kushner, who had originally been a strong backer of Manafort, had become uneasy about his Russian connections and suspected that he had not been forthright about them. Manafort stated in an internal staff memorandum that he would "remain the campaign chairman and chief strategist, providing the big-picture, long-range campaign vision". However, two days later, Trump announced his acceptance of Manafort's resignation from the campaign after Steve Bannon and Kellyanne Conway took on senior leadership roles within that campaign."[2] 1: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/paul-manafort-mueller-investigation-konstantin-kilimnik_n_5c337efce4b09b02cb328230?2ou= https://www.huffpost.com/entry/paul-manafort-mueller-investi... 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Manafort#Chairman_of_Trump's_2016_campaign https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Manafort#Chairman_of_Trum...
  - momdad420 5y ago
    Lmao you so desperately want to make it nothing
WoahNoun 5y ago
That was NOT Mueller's conclusion. That was Bill Barr's politically motivated summary of the Mueller report. Mueller concluded there was contacts between Trump campaign and the Russians government but it wasn't enough evidence to successfully prosecute. The actual Mueller report says: >As explained in Section IV above, the Office’s investigation uncovered evidence of numerous links (i.e., contacts) between Trump Campaign officials and individuals having or claiming to have ties to the Russian government. The Office evaluated the contacts under several sets of federal laws, including conspiracy laws and statutes governing foreign agents who operate in the United States. After considering the available evidence, the Office did not pursue charges under these statutes against any of the individuals discussed in Section IV above—with the exception of FARA charges against Paul Manafort and Richard Gates based on their activities on behalf of Ukraine. >One of the interactions between the Trump Campaign and Russian-affiliated individuals—the June 9, 2016 meeting between high-ranking campaign officials and Russians promising derogatory information on Hillary Clinton—implicates an additional body of law: campaign finance statutes. Schemes involving the solicitation or receipt of assistance from foreign sources raise difficult statutory and constitutional questions. As explained below, the Office evaluated those questions in connection with the June 9 meeting [REDACTED]. The Office ultimately concluded that, even if the principal legal questions were resolved favorably to the government, a prosecution would encounter difficulties proving that Campaign officials or Investigative Technique individuals connected to the Campaign willfully violated the law. >Finally, although the evidence of contacts between Campaign officials and Russia affiliated individuals may not have been sufficient to establish or sustain criminal charges, several U.S. persons connected to the Campaign made false statements about those contacts and took other steps to obstruct the Office’s investigation and those of Congress. This Office has therefore charged some of those individuals with making false statements and obstructing justice.
- leereeves 5y ago
  > That was NOT Mueller's conclusion. Don't spread misinformation, that was a DIRECT QUOTE from the Mueller report: "Ultimately, the investigation did not establish that the Campaign coordinated or conspired with the Russian government in its election-interference activities." You can see it in [1] or [2] or in the report itself. So there were a few contacts. So what? Presidential campaigns talk to a lot of people and don't vet them all in advance. As your own quote says: "After considering the available evidence, the Office did not pursue charges under these statutes against any of the individuals discussed in Section IV above—with the exception of FARA charges against Paul Manafort and Richard Gates based on their activities on behalf of Ukraine [not Russia]." 1: https://www.factcheck.org/2019/04/what-the-mueller-report-says-about-russian-contacts/ https://www.factcheck.org/2019/04/what-the-mueller-report-sa... 2: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2019/apr/18/mueller-report-trump-russia-key-takeaways https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2019/apr/...