4 ms·

Far be it for me to defend Microsoft here, but I feel like if you leave unsaved documents open overnight, you are asking for trouble. Why a person would ever wa

Far be it for me to defend Microsoft here, but I feel like if you leave unsaved documents open overnight, you are asking for trouble. Why a person would ever walk away from a computer without saving is beyond me. This whole post is actually pretty confusing to me. I don't use Windows that frequently myself, but my work laptop, my wife's laptop, my child's laptop, and my Surface Pro 1 all have Windows 10 on them, and this sort of thing has never happened to me. But I do my updates in a timely manner, shut down my PCs regularly, and only use sleep for temporary moments when I'm away from my PC. I just feel like a lot of the problems people have with Windows 10 aren't really in the software, but are between the keyboard and chair.

elcomet 5y ago
> Why a person would ever walk away from a computer without saving is beyond me. Because on other computers it just works. And if the computer stops it will re-open your unsaved documents.
jlund-molfese 5y ago
But I don’t think it’s an unrealistic expectation. A Linux server might have uptime measured in years, and the same thing is possible for a desktop (maybe you use your desktop as a home server, too)
fxtentacle 5y ago
> Why a person would ever walk away from a computer without saving is beyond me. In my case, it was mostly executables that I'm in the process of debugging and stepping through. I'm not aware of any debugger which can save and restore open file handles. > I just feel like a lot of the problems people have with Windows 10 aren't really in the software, but are between the keyboard and chair. I would have argued just like you before I encountered the cursed tablet. That thing had an integrated battery, so no matter what you tried, it could still turn on by itself if it wanted to. The only reliable way to make it stop making noises in the middle of the night was to thoroughly drain its battery. That said, the Dell XPS support post that I commented on is by itself pretty detailed about all the issues that Dell machines are having with Windows 10. I think you'll believe me that Dell wouldn't publicly post that unless they had a lot of support requests related to it. So it's apparently a widespread issue.
- Terr_ 5y ago
  > executables that I'm in the process of debugging In my case, virtual-machines. When Windows 10 decided it had to reboot, it would kill them dead. You can't quicksave those, and even if you did they have a higher-than-normal chance of not coming back up cleanly.
  - PeterisP 5y ago
    That's interesting, I usually treat the ability of easily snapshotting and restoring virtual machines as one of the main reasons for doing things inside a VM.
    - Terr_ 5y ago
      I believe some of the Ubuntu ones would occasionally just not recover correctly, some kind of video-card issue most likely. In any case, Win10 did not signal VirtualBox to save state -- or else didn't give it enough time -- so I would occasionally come back to my office to find everything I was working on gone due to some mystery-reboot that I didn't recall scheduling.
Toutouxc 5y ago
> Why a person would ever walk away from a computer without saving is beyond me. Because it's extremely convenient and I don't remember ever losing anything on my Mac. I close the lid in the evening, open it the next morning and everything is there exactly like I left it. MariaDB is still running, my IDE is still running, and I can jump right in. Day after day after day, my uptime is usually the number of days since the last macOS update.
- marderfarker2 5y ago
  The longest I’ve had my work laptop up is around 40 days. Usually shorter, as it slowly corrupts itself until it BSODed with memory management or page fault.
rm445 5y ago
Close my Mac, take it somewhere, open it up - there everything is. Close my work laptop, take it to the office, open it up - it's hot to the touch, stuck on the Dell high temperature warning screen, and needs to cool down and reboot. Of course it would be crazy for me to keep repeating this scenario (I tried changing the hibernation settings, and now just shut it down) - but we can wish for it to be better, especially since it's obviously possible.
PeterisP 5y ago
A key part is not only about saving particular documents but about keeping the whole state of all apps as-is, which is not compatible with "shut down my PCs regularly". My workflow involves closing up the laptop, carrying it elsewhere (while it sleeps - it has to survive being in a bag so not heating up), reopening with all the exact state it had, potentially many times each day. Then at the end of computer-day closing it (to sleep mode), and starting the next morning exactly where I left off - not from a clean after-shutdown state. Even for an unavoidable reboot (e.g. install of OS version update) I'd expect most of that state to be restored e.g. OS X and compatible apps restoring most the open apps and documents as they were - sadly it doesn't work as well as it should, so sleep is strongly preferable to anything involving a reboot. A full shutdown is an extraordinary event that's done when placing an unused system in long-term storage or when giving it to someone else, because all other daily usage (and short breaks e.g. weekends, not just "temporary moments when I'm away from my PC.") is better suited by a sleep/hibernate mode, at least if that works properly. TL;DR - a need to shutdown regularly is a fundamental design flaw, not a problem between keyboard and chair.

elcomet 5y ago

> Why a person would ever walk away from a computer without saving is beyond me. Because on other computers it just works. And if the computer stops it will re-open your unsaved documents.

jlund-molfese 5y ago

But I don’t think it’s an unrealistic expectation. A Linux server might have uptime measured in years, and the same thing is possible for a desktop (maybe you use your desktop as a home server, too)

fxtentacle 5y ago

> Why a person would ever walk away from a computer without saving is beyond me. In my case, it was mostly executables that I'm in the process of debugging and stepping through. I'm not aware of any debugger which can save and restore open file handles. > I just feel like a lot of the problems people have with Windows 10 aren't really in the software, but are between the keyboard and chair. I would have argued just like you before I encountered the cursed tablet. That thing had an integrated battery, so no matter what you tried, it could still turn on by itself if it wanted to. The only reliable way to make it stop making noises in the middle of the night was to thoroughly drain its battery. That said, the Dell XPS support post that I commented on is by itself pretty detailed about all the issues that Dell machines are having with Windows 10. I think you'll believe me that Dell wouldn't publicly post that unless they had a lot of support requests related to it. So it's apparently a widespread issue.

Terr_ 5y ago
> executables that I'm in the process of debugging In my case, virtual-machines. When Windows 10 decided it had to reboot, it would kill them dead. You can't quicksave those, and even if you did they have a higher-than-normal chance of not coming back up cleanly.
- PeterisP 5y ago
  That's interesting, I usually treat the ability of easily snapshotting and restoring virtual machines as one of the main reasons for doing things inside a VM.
  - Terr_ 5y ago
    I believe some of the Ubuntu ones would occasionally just not recover correctly, some kind of video-card issue most likely. In any case, Win10 did not signal VirtualBox to save state -- or else didn't give it enough time -- so I would occasionally come back to my office to find everything I was working on gone due to some mystery-reboot that I didn't recall scheduling.

Toutouxc 5y ago

> Why a person would ever walk away from a computer without saving is beyond me. Because it's extremely convenient and I don't remember ever losing anything on my Mac. I close the lid in the evening, open it the next morning and everything is there exactly like I left it. MariaDB is still running, my IDE is still running, and I can jump right in. Day after day after day, my uptime is usually the number of days since the last macOS update.

marderfarker2 5y ago
The longest I’ve had my work laptop up is around 40 days. Usually shorter, as it slowly corrupts itself until it BSODed with memory management or page fault.

rm445 5y ago

Close my Mac, take it somewhere, open it up - there everything is. Close my work laptop, take it to the office, open it up - it's hot to the touch, stuck on the Dell high temperature warning screen, and needs to cool down and reboot. Of course it would be crazy for me to keep repeating this scenario (I tried changing the hibernation settings, and now just shut it down) - but we can wish for it to be better, especially since it's obviously possible.

PeterisP 5y ago

A key part is not only about saving particular documents but about keeping the whole state of all apps as-is, which is not compatible with "shut down my PCs regularly". My workflow involves closing up the laptop, carrying it elsewhere (while it sleeps - it has to survive being in a bag so not heating up), reopening with all the exact state it had, potentially many times each day. Then at the end of computer-day closing it (to sleep mode), and starting the next morning exactly where I left off - not from a clean after-shutdown state. Even for an unavoidable reboot (e.g. install of OS version update) I'd expect most of that state to be restored e.g. OS X and compatible apps restoring most the open apps and documents as they were - sadly it doesn't work as well as it should, so sleep is strongly preferable to anything involving a reboot. A full shutdown is an extraordinary event that's done when placing an unused system in long-term storage or when giving it to someone else, because all other daily usage (and short breaks e.g. weekends, not just "temporary moments when I'm away from my PC.") is better suited by a sleep/hibernate mode, at least if that works properly. TL;DR - a need to shutdown regularly is a fundamental design flaw, not a problem between keyboard and chair.