7 ms·

Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 banned from Europe (Apple wins injunction)

134 points by amirmc 15y ago

levesque 15y ago
To me this sounds a bit scary. Is the Galaxy Tab really that similar to the IPad? What about the Xoom? If the Galaxy is banned, why should the Xoom/Asus Transformer be excluded?
- reaganing 15y ago
  There are only so many ways to design a unique rectangular phone or tablet, but Samsung tries to make theirs look closer to Apple's than the others. Samsung's TouchWiz interface, at least on the phones, could easily be mistaken for Apple's interface in iOS as well, whereas HTC and Motorola's phones can't really.
- ecspike 15y ago
  No, it's not really that similar. It's gamesmanship from Apple. People have thought my really chunky viewsonic g-tablet was an ipad: http://www.viewsonic.com/gtablet/ http://www.viewsonic.com/gtablet/ and it is no where close.
  - GHFigs 15y ago
    People have thought my really chunky viewsonic g-tablet was an ipad That would suggest that Apple is correct, wouldn't it?
    - technoslut 15y ago
      It would also mean that any tablet would be considered infringing on the design of the iPad.
      - GHFigs 15y ago
        Only if you think the entire design space has been explored. Sure, there's only so many ways you can package the same commodity components, but I don't think it's impossible to design a tablet that's distinguishable from an iPad from more than a few feet away (or in advertising). Compare an HP TouchPad or Nook Color to the Galaxy Tab models.
    - arron61 15y ago
      No..ppl believe any tablets are ipads since Apple was first to make the tablet popular. There are standard shapes and sizes for a lot of technologies.
    - moskie 15y ago
      I'm sure there's plenty of people who have referred to OSX as "Windows." Might not be the case so much now that Macs are becoming more popular, but I think my point still stands: calling for either tablet to be banned is just as absurd as calling for either OS to be banned.
      - GrantS 15y ago
        Your example was the subject of a famous lawsuit as well, so whatever your feelings about the issues, Apple has acted consistently over the years in going after those who they see as copying their products: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Computer,_Inc._v._Microsoft_Corporation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Computer,_Inc._v._Microso...
        fpgeek 15y ago
        And this famous lawsuit was a famous mistake by Apple. They lost and they generated an enormous amount of ill will at a time when Apple couldn't afford that. Looking back, it is amazing to realize that people felt sympathetic to Microsoft as a victim of Apple's anti-competitive tactics.
    - trezor 15y ago
      Are you seriously suggesting everyone else in the market should be banned from making tablets because Apple was the first one to make one which is publically recognized? You may not have said so explicitly, but it is hanging out there, on the broad side of your argument.
      - GHFigs 15y ago
        No, and I resent the interpretation.
    - mikecane 15y ago
      No, not at all. Because everyone who sees an eBook reader usually thinks it's a Kindle, despite the fact a Sony, a Kobo, and the original Nook look absolutely nothing like a Kindle. (The Nook Touch has a similar color casing, but has no keyboard. Plus, there is no white model.)
raganwald 15y ago
Sadly for Samsung, Apple's injunction is going to severely harm the company's financial outlook. The device is now blocked across Europe, Australia, and Apple is currently attempting to block the import of all Galaxy devices into the US. It is sad for Samsung that sales of the Tab are being blocked while the court case is settled, but were they really expecting so many sales that this will “severely harm the company's financial outlook?” I don’t see the Tab as a bet-the-company move for Samsung, this is probably more of an embarassment and inconvenience than a fatal blow.
- tjogin 15y ago
  Yeah, I have a feeling this is going to be worse for Apple than it is for Samsung. Like you said, Samsung's tablets aren't really selling that well (more were returned last month than sold, I heard), so it's not going to be a significant blow to them, financially. Now Samsung's failure in the tablet space is going to be big bad Apple's bullying fault, and Samsung will play the role of the martyr. Samsung were failing anyways, but now it's Apple's fault. The only way Apple wins here is if this prevents other players from imitating them.
  - ashishgandhi 15y ago
    Apple also wins because business may now avoid the legally-challeged or legally-risky Android devices. Better safe than sorry. Esp. when the iPad is not being sold at a much higher price.
  - Pewpewarrows 15y ago
    Those reports weren't about Samsung Tablets. They were about Logitech Revues, and they turned out to be wrong to begin with.
    - tjogin 15y ago
      You may be right about that specific report, but the same seems to be true for Samsung's tablets. Nobody are selling tablets, other than Apple.
ugh 15y ago
Some more details: http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/08/preliminary-injunction-granted-by.html http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/08/preliminary-injuncti... No patent or trademark is the culprit but rather the design (as in: look) of the enclosure. Above article does link to this document: http://www.scribd.com/doc/61944044/Community-Design-000181607-0001 http://www.scribd.com/doc/61944044/Community-Design-00018160... That’s called a community design, it’s an EU thing, here is the Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_design http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_design This article deals a bit more with community designs and especially the concept of the “informed user” that is somewhat central to them: http://www.linklaters.com/Publications/Publication1392Newsletter/July_2011/Pages/EU_Designs_Informed_User_Defind.aspx http://www.linklaters.com/Publications/Publication1392Newsle... Here are images of the current iPad: http://www.apple.com/ipad/specs/ http://www.apple.com/ipad/specs/ Here are images of the Galaxy Tab 10.1: http://www.samsung.com/global/microsite/galaxytab/10.1/spec.html http://www.samsung.com/global/microsite/galaxytab/10.1/spec.... (My personal opinion? It seems absurd to me that you can protect something vague like this. The Galaxy Tab and the iPad seem sufficiently different to me as to not cause consumer confusion.)
- arron61 15y ago
  This is ridiculous. They are suing over a rectangular shape and a certain size / weight? So I guess only Apple can make a thin tablet. Any other one will be an infringement... Can Ssamsung sue all other TV makers since they are all rectangular, with a bezel, and is flat? They all look too similar to Samsung TVs!
  - siglesias 15y ago
    Are rectangular shape, size and weight the only similarities you can find? Check out the side by sides: http://thisismynext.com/2011/04/19/apple-sues-samsung-analysis/ http://thisismynext.com/2011/04/19/apple-sues-samsung-analys... I'm sure you could hire a creative team to come up with 100 iterations of tablets and icons (as I'm sure Apple did) that would look nothing like an iPad. In light of those 100 the similarities would look more apparent than ever.
technoslut 15y ago
I've always though that Samsung borrows heavily from Apple but the Galaxy Tab seems like a real stretch. There is enough of a difference between the two products where a customer shouldn't get confused.
- Perceval 15y ago
  I think Apple is getting angry about its partners taking what they've learned from Apple and using it to compete directly against them. From the article: The injunction comes as the latest blow in a tit-for-tat legal war between the two companies, who have otherwise enjoyed a solid working relationship: Samsung produces many of the components used in both the iPhone and the iPad, the design of which it stands accused of copying. This is the same type of dynamic that led to the falling out between Steve Jobs and Eric Schmidt, when Schmidt, as a board member of Apple, used his inside knowledge of iOS to radically change Android's UI and functionality to compete directly against Apple. Likewise, this reminds us of Steve Jobs showing Bill Gates the Mac GUI, and then finding out that Gates used that knowledge to revamp the Windows UI to directly compete against the Mac. Apple has a problem in that it seemingly cannot partner with anyone without those companies then turning around and using their knowledge of Apple's software and design to compete directly against them in the same space.
  - Kylekramer 15y ago
    It is quite the dramatic claim to say Microsoft, Google, or Samsung used insider information to copy Apple when all of the copied products came out well after the Mac, iPhone and iPad were publicly released.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - technoslut 15y ago
    I do agree with you that all of Apple's partners that you have mentioned have continually backstabbed them but I wonder exactly how far Apple can go legally. It seems they could potentially go after anyone with this decision. I'm all for protecting IP but there were tablets before the iPad.
digamber_kamat 15y ago
Good part is that Galaxy Tab might get a bit cheaper in other parts :P
MrHobbes 15y ago
It seems to me that there are only so many ways to design a thin, tablet-like device. How different would Samsung have needed to make its tablet so as not to have been affected by this to begin with? I don't really know much of the background surrounding "community design rights", but I really think that this is a slippery slope to head down. Competitors should do battle in the free market - not in the court systems. Let consumers sort out which is the better product. They have no problems doing this without the aid of an injunction. This stifling of competition via the court system is just another avenue to stagnate progress within the electronics industry.
blinkingled 15y ago
As a recent Tab 10.1 owner I am not sure there are enough design similarities with the iPad to warrant a ban. However this may be a wake up call for Samsung - it is hard not to see their products as being influenced by Apple without any uniqueness to balance the experience. Motorola's product experience for example has a certain Motorola culture in it and doesn't feel anything like Apple. Likewise for HTC. This may not justify Apple suing them - but in my mind being a copy without it's own unique traits is the worst thing that could happen to a brand. (Everyone copies but successful brands retain their uniqueness.)
- RobAtticus 15y ago
  I have to agree, but I may be basing it off the first iPad. I was a bit stunned on the plane when I saw how much thinner my tab was than this girl's iPad. I thought they'd be more similar. I was a bit jealous of her monopoly game app though.
  - blinkingled 15y ago
    Yeah, I kinda like the uniform thinness of the Tab even compared to iPad2. And also the uniqueness that comes with it when traveling - wow there are iPads and Kindles everywhere these days :)
51Cards 15y ago
To me this smells of a couple possibilities. This is the first tablet to my knowledge that Apple has gone after in this way, though it seems the scope is wide enough they could have used it against several others in the market. Makes me wonder if this is the first product that Apple is somewhat worried about? Why this one and why now? The added interest is that Samsung, being a major parts supplier for Apple's products is being singled out despite this. I don't know what it would mean fiscally for Samsung but I would think they have some leverage in the "Well, if you want to be that way about it" department. Apple may stop getting priority consideration for parts orders over other companies. Also Samsung's product range is wide enough they could easily pull the same move against several of Apple's other products like monitors.
- AllenKids 15y ago
  Samsung already sued Apple in more countries than Apple did to it. Pissing contest and such. HTC's tablet is also under ITC's investigation, initiated by Apple. Except the A5 SOC nothing Samsung makes for Apple is unique enough. And TSMC is actively testing mass producing Apple's IC. BTW: Apple's utility model of essentially a giant iPod touch is ridiculously hilarious.
  - fpgeek 15y ago
    Samsung is a very big producer of flash memory. While that isn't unique, if Apple has to fill their large requirements from other suppliers, those suppliers may decide to charge more (or have to charge more given other demands on their production capacity) if they know Apple doesn't have Samsung as an option...
    - AllenKids 15y ago
      On the other hand Apple is the single biggest buyer of NAND Flash in the world, if Apple goes elsewhere, Samsung's foundry would find it really hard to fill the capacity.() IIRC, since Japan Tsunami everybody's been scrambling securing components but the demand was relatively soft, e.g. Qualcomm ends its recent quarter with 59 days worth of inventory. So now everything is cheap including NAND Flash, as a matter of fact Apple in its financial outlook for Q4(fiscal) stated a buyer's market for multiple key component will positively affect Apple's GM. http://digitimes.com/print/a20110801PD204.html http://digitimes.com/print/a20110801PD204.html
drieddust 15y ago
This clearly shows how afraid Apple is of Android devices. They do not have any shame in denying a developer his application on false grounds and then copying it over a few iterations later. http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/40465/apple-allegedly-copies-wi-fi-sync http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/40465/apple-allegedly-copies... They want to copy notification system from Android. At the same time they want to sue Android for copying context menu. Now they want to sue other devices because they are rectangular in shape. If this is Apple then I will prefer an Apple free world.
- megablast 15y ago
  No it does not. This is a normal part of business. Why people feel the need to associate 'being afraid of' and 'suing someone' is just strange and biased.
tluyben2 15y ago
It's by a German judge and it doesn't go for the Netherlands (tomorrow is the case in the Dutch court). Why would a German judge get to say this for the entire EU I wonder though?
- ugh 15y ago
  Because the goal of the EU is to create a common market. A EU-wide judiciary is consequently necessary to enforce certain laws (especially those that regulate the common market).
  - tluyben2 15y ago
    Yes, that's the goal. Doesn't really work so far for a lot of things, among which this kind of stuff. So do you know facts about this or was this a guess based on 'united europe' propaganda? Serious question; I am curious! I have never heard of anything like that and the Dutch press is saying that they don't have clue why a German judge ruling would govern the rest of EU and if it does, why not NL.
    - ugh 15y ago
      No guess, that's just how it is. Preliminary injunctions about community designs apply EU wide. Apple asked in their request for the injunction (German, http://www.scribd.com/doc/61993811/10-08-04-Apple-Motion-for-EU-Wide-Prel-Inj-Galaxy-Tab-10-1 http://www.scribd.com/doc/61993811/10-08-04-Apple-Motion-for...) to exclude the Netherlands from the injunction. Apple is suing Samsung separatly in the Netherlands. The press you are reading seems to be exceedingly bad at its job.
      - tluyben2 15y ago
        Apparently. Thanks!
tluyben2 15y ago
It's by a German judge and it doesn't go for the Netherlands (tomorrow is the case in the Dutch court). Why would a German judge get to say this for the entire EU I wonder though?
cpeterso 15y ago
In 2010, Apple bought $5.7B of components from Samsung. The 2011 estimate is $7.8B. I doubt Samsung would stop selling components to Apple, but are there other manufacturers that could delivery compatible parts for Apple's iOS devices if Samsung did?
- kenjackson 15y ago
  A lot of companies exist that make various components. BUT few with the quality and volume of Samsung. Apple is often supply-side constrained. So they could cut Samsung out the mix, but this just makes Apple more vulnerable to supply shortages. Furthermore, by selecting their way out of one of the biggest screen, CPU, and memory manufacturers in the world and probably having to fund new factories for smaller manufacturers -- this volume is open up to other companies. The end result is cheaper components for Samsung mobile, HTC, Sony, LG, etc...
Pewpewarrows 15y ago
Ever develop a modal window? Arrange a timeline of messages according to date received? Arrange icons or shortcuts in a grid-like structure? Congratulations, you've violated an Apple patent. Other fun tidbits from their collection: * A mobile device with rounded corners * Having a picture of a phone as a phone icon * Having a picture of a gear for a settings icon * Interactive widgets
- Steko 15y ago
  Thanks for helping spread massive ignorance about how design patents (etc.) work. If you make a phone with a distinctive design and patent that design, you list out the many features that comprise that design. You do not have a patent on every single one of those features. If someone copies a few of many features they certainly don't violate your patent. OTOH if they copy almost all of them they almost certainly do. Where that line is varies and I don't know if Samsung is over the line but it's pretty clear that they are way closer to the line then any other major manufacturer. And as for who this benefits, I'd suggest that HTC, Motorola and other Android vendors will benefit just as much or moreso then Apple.
  - Pewpewarrows 15y ago
    I suggest you actually go read through Apple's patents before arguing about them. They didn't file a design patent for the entire device. Instead, as you browse through their collection, you see page after page of patents for tiny features like those I listed. A type of modal window, for example: http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=dLnlAAAAEBAJ&dq=7,853,891 http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=dLnlAAAAEBAJ&dq=7... I literally laughed as I read through some of them, because I've definitely unknowingly violated many. It's impossible not to step on the toes of overly broad software patents.
    - dman 15y ago
      I think the time is ripe for doing some civil disobedience about software and design patents.
    - 15y ago
Tichy 15y ago
I was undecided between getting a Galaxy Tab or an iPad. Now I definitely won't get an iPad.
- outrageo 15y ago
  Nobody cares kid. Grow up.
cwp 15y ago
I'm deeply ambivalent about this. We'd all be better off if tech companies competed with engineers instead of lawyers. Nevertheless, there's just no getting around the fact that the Galaxy Tab is a pretty direct knock-off of the iPad. Are we supposed to get all upset because Samsung's right to ride on Apple's coat-tails has been violated?
ck2 15y ago
When the biggest/most lawyers prevents who moves technology forward and prevents price competition, we all lose. http://i.imgur.com/aLGOQ.jpg http://i.imgur.com/aLGOQ.jpg
- mendocino 15y ago
  > http://i.imgur.com/aLGOQ.jpg http://i.imgur.com/aLGOQ.jpg Please, not this again. http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_f700-1849.php http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_f700-1849.php http://androidcommunity.com/who-was-really-first-apple-vs-samsung-story-truly-debunked-20110420/ http://androidcommunity.com/who-was-really-first-apple-vs-sa...
yason 15y ago
This is fucked as usual. Making a "copy" (or a real 1:1 copy, for that matter) itself doesn't add any value. Creating a design is an effort that is valuable itself (somebody might pay the designer) but copying a finished design or creating not-so-derivative works is an infinitesimally small effort. And no effort means no value. A copy of a design is worthless. Conversely, Samsung still has to actually manufacture their tablets: that's a undisputable effort spent and that does create value. Sure their tablets might look same-ish (there aren't that many fundamental designs for a tablet computer) but they haven't created any value in their design. At best Apple should just be flattered to see competitors imitating their looks; however, in no sensible world Apple shouldn't have a say what other companies or people can spend their time and effort in. Design is not property: there's no "intellectual property". Every time we try to treat mental works as property we fail majestetically, but then try to cough it up and cry for even stricter copyright restrictions.
trezor 15y ago
When you buy an Apple-product, no matter how shiny and polished it seems right there and then, you support this shit. Your newly acquired, polished Apple-product just made your hands dirty.
arron61 15y ago
I think JooJoo (aka CrunchPad) should sue Apple for design infringements. Clearly it came out before the iPad (JooJoo 2009, iPad 2010). When I see an iPad, I think of the JooJoo pad. It is rectangular; it has a bezel; and it's thin! Clearly these are all traits only for Apple and an iPad to use. Clearly Apple copied these traits just like how Android copied everything of iPhone. http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/gadgetlab/2009/12/main.jpg http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/gadgetlab/2009/12/main.jpg sarcastic rant
cageface 15y ago
It seems Apple now feels entitled to dictate the limits of choice not only within its own ecosystem but also without. This news comes in the same week that I finally try Android coding and find it much less scary than many people maintain and much more logical than iOS in many ways. Maybe this kind of bullying will tip the balance for me. According to Nielsen's most recent survey, 50% of the people buying Android phones are doing it out of active dislike of Apple as a company. Expect this number to grow as the public sees more products blocked like this. http://www.buzzom.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Android-vs-iPhone.jpg http://www.buzzom.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Android-vs-...
sharmajai 15y ago
I am waiting for Gruber's justification for this. I am sure he will be able to cook something up as he always does. On the other hand, I think this is one of those things, which have brought down Apple time and time again in the past, from the pinnacles of success to being competitively obsolete, mainly due to its inability to adapt to the changing market dynamics.
guard-of-terra 15y ago
If something like that would happen in Russia, surely people would say "I wonder how much did Apply pay to make it happen". But now, considering USA and Europe... How much did Apple /what/ to make it happen? P.S. Meanwhile you can still buy one in Russia, and is the ban stays I think those would go really cheap.
AAABBB 15y ago
I don't think there is any need to have any kind of technical discussion about this. Clearly Apple and the EU are morons of the highest order and anyone who tolerates either one is a moron him/her self. The fact that their lawyers thought they could harm billions of consumers based solely on the concept of shiny rectangles is mindboggling bullshit.

134 points by amirmc 15y ago

To me this sounds a bit scary. Is the Galaxy Tab really that similar to the IPad? What about the Xoom? If the Galaxy is banned, why should the Xoom/Asus Transformer be excluded?

reaganing 15y ago
There are only so many ways to design a unique rectangular phone or tablet, but Samsung tries to make theirs look closer to Apple's than the others. Samsung's TouchWiz interface, at least on the phones, could easily be mistaken for Apple's interface in iOS as well, whereas HTC and Motorola's phones can't really.
ecspike 15y ago
No, it's not really that similar. It's gamesmanship from Apple. People have thought my really chunky viewsonic g-tablet was an ipad: http://www.viewsonic.com/gtablet/ http://www.viewsonic.com/gtablet/ and it is no where close.
- GHFigs 15y ago
  People have thought my really chunky viewsonic g-tablet was an ipad That would suggest that Apple is correct, wouldn't it?
  - technoslut 15y ago
    It would also mean that any tablet would be considered infringing on the design of the iPad.
    - GHFigs 15y ago
      Only if you think the entire design space has been explored. Sure, there's only so many ways you can package the same commodity components, but I don't think it's impossible to design a tablet that's distinguishable from an iPad from more than a few feet away (or in advertising). Compare an HP TouchPad or Nook Color to the Galaxy Tab models.
  - arron61 15y ago
    No..ppl believe any tablets are ipads since Apple was first to make the tablet popular. There are standard shapes and sizes for a lot of technologies.
  - moskie 15y ago
    I'm sure there's plenty of people who have referred to OSX as "Windows." Might not be the case so much now that Macs are becoming more popular, but I think my point still stands: calling for either tablet to be banned is just as absurd as calling for either OS to be banned.
    - GrantS 15y ago
      Your example was the subject of a famous lawsuit as well, so whatever your feelings about the issues, Apple has acted consistently over the years in going after those who they see as copying their products: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Computer,_Inc._v._Microsoft_Corporation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Computer,_Inc._v._Microso...
      - fpgeek 15y ago
        And this famous lawsuit was a famous mistake by Apple. They lost and they generated an enormous amount of ill will at a time when Apple couldn't afford that. Looking back, it is amazing to realize that people felt sympathetic to Microsoft as a victim of Apple's anti-competitive tactics.
  - trezor 15y ago
    Are you seriously suggesting everyone else in the market should be banned from making tablets because Apple was the first one to make one which is publically recognized? You may not have said so explicitly, but it is hanging out there, on the broad side of your argument.
    - GHFigs 15y ago
      No, and I resent the interpretation.
  - mikecane 15y ago
    No, not at all. Because everyone who sees an eBook reader usually thinks it's a Kindle, despite the fact a Sony, a Kobo, and the original Nook look absolutely nothing like a Kindle. (The Nook Touch has a similar color casing, but has no keyboard. Plus, there is no white model.)

raganwald 15y ago

Sadly for Samsung, Apple's injunction is going to severely harm the company's financial outlook. The device is now blocked across Europe, Australia, and Apple is currently attempting to block the import of all Galaxy devices into the US. It is sad for Samsung that sales of the Tab are being blocked while the court case is settled, but were they really expecting so many sales that this will “severely harm the company's financial outlook?” I don’t see the Tab as a bet-the-company move for Samsung, this is probably more of an embarassment and inconvenience than a fatal blow.

tjogin 15y ago
Yeah, I have a feeling this is going to be worse for Apple than it is for Samsung. Like you said, Samsung's tablets aren't really selling that well (more were returned last month than sold, I heard), so it's not going to be a significant blow to them, financially. Now Samsung's failure in the tablet space is going to be big bad Apple's bullying fault, and Samsung will play the role of the martyr. Samsung were failing anyways, but now it's Apple's fault. The only way Apple wins here is if this prevents other players from imitating them.
- ashishgandhi 15y ago
  Apple also wins because business may now avoid the legally-challeged or legally-risky Android devices. Better safe than sorry. Esp. when the iPad is not being sold at a much higher price.
- Pewpewarrows 15y ago
  Those reports weren't about Samsung Tablets. They were about Logitech Revues, and they turned out to be wrong to begin with.
  - tjogin 15y ago
    You may be right about that specific report, but the same seems to be true for Samsung's tablets. Nobody are selling tablets, other than Apple.

ugh 15y ago

Some more details: http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/08/preliminary-injunction-granted-by.html http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/08/preliminary-injuncti... No patent or trademark is the culprit but rather the design (as in: look) of the enclosure. Above article does link to this document: http://www.scribd.com/doc/61944044/Community-Design-000181607-0001 http://www.scribd.com/doc/61944044/Community-Design-00018160... That’s called a community design, it’s an EU thing, here is the Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_design http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_design This article deals a bit more with community designs and especially the concept of the “informed user” that is somewhat central to them: http://www.linklaters.com/Publications/Publication1392Newsletter/July_2011/Pages/EU_Designs_Informed_User_Defind.aspx http://www.linklaters.com/Publications/Publication1392Newsle... Here are images of the current iPad: http://www.apple.com/ipad/specs/ http://www.apple.com/ipad/specs/ Here are images of the Galaxy Tab 10.1: http://www.samsung.com/global/microsite/galaxytab/10.1/spec.html http://www.samsung.com/global/microsite/galaxytab/10.1/spec.... (My personal opinion? It seems absurd to me that you can protect something vague like this. The Galaxy Tab and the iPad seem sufficiently different to me as to not cause consumer confusion.)

arron61 15y ago
This is ridiculous. They are suing over a rectangular shape and a certain size / weight? So I guess only Apple can make a thin tablet. Any other one will be an infringement... Can Ssamsung sue all other TV makers since they are all rectangular, with a bezel, and is flat? They all look too similar to Samsung TVs!
- siglesias 15y ago
  Are rectangular shape, size and weight the only similarities you can find? Check out the side by sides: http://thisismynext.com/2011/04/19/apple-sues-samsung-analysis/ http://thisismynext.com/2011/04/19/apple-sues-samsung-analys... I'm sure you could hire a creative team to come up with 100 iterations of tablets and icons (as I'm sure Apple did) that would look nothing like an iPad. In light of those 100 the similarities would look more apparent than ever.

technoslut 15y ago

I've always though that Samsung borrows heavily from Apple but the Galaxy Tab seems like a real stretch. There is enough of a difference between the two products where a customer shouldn't get confused.

Perceval 15y ago
I think Apple is getting angry about its partners taking what they've learned from Apple and using it to compete directly against them. From the article: The injunction comes as the latest blow in a tit-for-tat legal war between the two companies, who have otherwise enjoyed a solid working relationship: Samsung produces many of the components used in both the iPhone and the iPad, the design of which it stands accused of copying. This is the same type of dynamic that led to the falling out between Steve Jobs and Eric Schmidt, when Schmidt, as a board member of Apple, used his inside knowledge of iOS to radically change Android's UI and functionality to compete directly against Apple. Likewise, this reminds us of Steve Jobs showing Bill Gates the Mac GUI, and then finding out that Gates used that knowledge to revamp the Windows UI to directly compete against the Mac. Apple has a problem in that it seemingly cannot partner with anyone without those companies then turning around and using their knowledge of Apple's software and design to compete directly against them in the same space.
- Kylekramer 15y ago
  It is quite the dramatic claim to say Microsoft, Google, or Samsung used insider information to copy Apple when all of the copied products came out well after the Mac, iPhone and iPad were publicly released.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- technoslut 15y ago
  I do agree with you that all of Apple's partners that you have mentioned have continually backstabbed them but I wonder exactly how far Apple can go legally. It seems they could potentially go after anyone with this decision. I'm all for protecting IP but there were tablets before the iPad.

digamber_kamat 15y ago

Good part is that Galaxy Tab might get a bit cheaper in other parts :P

MrHobbes 15y ago

It seems to me that there are only so many ways to design a thin, tablet-like device. How different would Samsung have needed to make its tablet so as not to have been affected by this to begin with? I don't really know much of the background surrounding "community design rights", but I really think that this is a slippery slope to head down. Competitors should do battle in the free market - not in the court systems. Let consumers sort out which is the better product. They have no problems doing this without the aid of an injunction. This stifling of competition via the court system is just another avenue to stagnate progress within the electronics industry.

blinkingled 15y ago

As a recent Tab 10.1 owner I am not sure there are enough design similarities with the iPad to warrant a ban. However this may be a wake up call for Samsung - it is hard not to see their products as being influenced by Apple without any uniqueness to balance the experience. Motorola's product experience for example has a certain Motorola culture in it and doesn't feel anything like Apple. Likewise for HTC. This may not justify Apple suing them - but in my mind being a copy without it's own unique traits is the worst thing that could happen to a brand. (Everyone copies but successful brands retain their uniqueness.)

RobAtticus 15y ago
I have to agree, but I may be basing it off the first iPad. I was a bit stunned on the plane when I saw how much thinner my tab was than this girl's iPad. I thought they'd be more similar. I was a bit jealous of her monopoly game app though.
- blinkingled 15y ago
  Yeah, I kinda like the uniform thinness of the Tab even compared to iPad2. And also the uniqueness that comes with it when traveling - wow there are iPads and Kindles everywhere these days :)

51Cards 15y ago

To me this smells of a couple possibilities. This is the first tablet to my knowledge that Apple has gone after in this way, though it seems the scope is wide enough they could have used it against several others in the market. Makes me wonder if this is the first product that Apple is somewhat worried about? Why this one and why now? The added interest is that Samsung, being a major parts supplier for Apple's products is being singled out despite this. I don't know what it would mean fiscally for Samsung but I would think they have some leverage in the "Well, if you want to be that way about it" department. Apple may stop getting priority consideration for parts orders over other companies. Also Samsung's product range is wide enough they could easily pull the same move against several of Apple's other products like monitors.

AllenKids 15y ago
Samsung already sued Apple in more countries than Apple did to it. Pissing contest and such. HTC's tablet is also under ITC's investigation, initiated by Apple. Except the A5 SOC nothing Samsung makes for Apple is unique enough. And TSMC is actively testing mass producing Apple's IC. BTW: Apple's utility model of essentially a giant iPod touch is ridiculously hilarious.
- fpgeek 15y ago
  Samsung is a very big producer of flash memory. While that isn't unique, if Apple has to fill their large requirements from other suppliers, those suppliers may decide to charge more (or have to charge more given other demands on their production capacity) if they know Apple doesn't have Samsung as an option...
  - AllenKids 15y ago
    On the other hand Apple is the single biggest buyer of NAND Flash in the world, if Apple goes elsewhere, Samsung's foundry would find it really hard to fill the capacity.() IIRC, since Japan Tsunami everybody's been scrambling securing components but the demand was relatively soft, e.g. Qualcomm ends its recent quarter with 59 days worth of inventory. So now everything is cheap including NAND Flash, as a matter of fact Apple in its financial outlook for Q4(fiscal) stated a buyer's market for multiple key component will positively affect Apple's GM. http://digitimes.com/print/a20110801PD204.html http://digitimes.com/print/a20110801PD204.html

drieddust 15y ago

This clearly shows how afraid Apple is of Android devices. They do not have any shame in denying a developer his application on false grounds and then copying it over a few iterations later. http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/40465/apple-allegedly-copies-wi-fi-sync http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/40465/apple-allegedly-copies... They want to copy notification system from Android. At the same time they want to sue Android for copying context menu. Now they want to sue other devices because they are rectangular in shape. If this is Apple then I will prefer an Apple free world.

megablast 15y ago
No it does not. This is a normal part of business. Why people feel the need to associate 'being afraid of' and 'suing someone' is just strange and biased.

tluyben2 15y ago

It's by a German judge and it doesn't go for the Netherlands (tomorrow is the case in the Dutch court). Why would a German judge get to say this for the entire EU I wonder though?

ugh 15y ago
Because the goal of the EU is to create a common market. A EU-wide judiciary is consequently necessary to enforce certain laws (especially those that regulate the common market).
- tluyben2 15y ago
  Yes, that's the goal. Doesn't really work so far for a lot of things, among which this kind of stuff. So do you know facts about this or was this a guess based on 'united europe' propaganda? Serious question; I am curious! I have never heard of anything like that and the Dutch press is saying that they don't have clue why a German judge ruling would govern the rest of EU and if it does, why not NL.
  - ugh 15y ago
    No guess, that's just how it is. Preliminary injunctions about community designs apply EU wide. Apple asked in their request for the injunction (German, http://www.scribd.com/doc/61993811/10-08-04-Apple-Motion-for-EU-Wide-Prel-Inj-Galaxy-Tab-10-1 http://www.scribd.com/doc/61993811/10-08-04-Apple-Motion-for...) to exclude the Netherlands from the injunction. Apple is suing Samsung separatly in the Netherlands. The press you are reading seems to be exceedingly bad at its job.
    - tluyben2 15y ago
      Apparently. Thanks!

tluyben2 15y ago

It's by a German judge and it doesn't go for the Netherlands (tomorrow is the case in the Dutch court). Why would a German judge get to say this for the entire EU I wonder though?

cpeterso 15y ago

In 2010, Apple bought $5.7B of components from Samsung. The 2011 estimate is $7.8B. I doubt Samsung would stop selling components to Apple, but are there other manufacturers that could delivery compatible parts for Apple's iOS devices if Samsung did?

kenjackson 15y ago
A lot of companies exist that make various components. BUT few with the quality and volume of Samsung. Apple is often supply-side constrained. So they could cut Samsung out the mix, but this just makes Apple more vulnerable to supply shortages. Furthermore, by selecting their way out of one of the biggest screen, CPU, and memory manufacturers in the world and probably having to fund new factories for smaller manufacturers -- this volume is open up to other companies. The end result is cheaper components for Samsung mobile, HTC, Sony, LG, etc...

Pewpewarrows 15y ago

Ever develop a modal window? Arrange a timeline of messages according to date received? Arrange icons or shortcuts in a grid-like structure? Congratulations, you've violated an Apple patent. Other fun tidbits from their collection: * A mobile device with rounded corners * Having a picture of a phone as a phone icon * Having a picture of a gear for a settings icon * Interactive widgets

Steko 15y ago
Thanks for helping spread massive ignorance about how design patents (etc.) work. If you make a phone with a distinctive design and patent that design, you list out the many features that comprise that design. You do not have a patent on every single one of those features. If someone copies a few of many features they certainly don't violate your patent. OTOH if they copy almost all of them they almost certainly do. Where that line is varies and I don't know if Samsung is over the line but it's pretty clear that they are way closer to the line then any other major manufacturer. And as for who this benefits, I'd suggest that HTC, Motorola and other Android vendors will benefit just as much or moreso then Apple.
- Pewpewarrows 15y ago
  I suggest you actually go read through Apple's patents before arguing about them. They didn't file a design patent for the entire device. Instead, as you browse through their collection, you see page after page of patents for tiny features like those I listed. A type of modal window, for example: http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=dLnlAAAAEBAJ&dq=7,853,891 http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=dLnlAAAAEBAJ&dq=7... I literally laughed as I read through some of them, because I've definitely unknowingly violated many. It's impossible not to step on the toes of overly broad software patents.
  - dman 15y ago
    I think the time is ripe for doing some civil disobedience about software and design patents.
  - 15y ago

Tichy 15y ago

I was undecided between getting a Galaxy Tab or an iPad. Now I definitely won't get an iPad.

outrageo 15y ago
Nobody cares kid. Grow up.

cwp 15y ago

I'm deeply ambivalent about this. We'd all be better off if tech companies competed with engineers instead of lawyers. Nevertheless, there's just no getting around the fact that the Galaxy Tab is a pretty direct knock-off of the iPad. Are we supposed to get all upset because Samsung's right to ride on Apple's coat-tails has been violated?

ck2 15y ago

When the biggest/most lawyers prevents who moves technology forward and prevents price competition, we all lose. http://i.imgur.com/aLGOQ.jpg http://i.imgur.com/aLGOQ.jpg

mendocino 15y ago
> http://i.imgur.com/aLGOQ.jpg http://i.imgur.com/aLGOQ.jpg Please, not this again. http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_f700-1849.php http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_f700-1849.php http://androidcommunity.com/who-was-really-first-apple-vs-samsung-story-truly-debunked-20110420/ http://androidcommunity.com/who-was-really-first-apple-vs-sa...

yason 15y ago

This is fucked as usual. Making a "copy" (or a real 1:1 copy, for that matter) itself doesn't add any value. Creating a design is an effort that is valuable itself (somebody might pay the designer) but copying a finished design or creating not-so-derivative works is an infinitesimally small effort. And no effort means no value. A copy of a design is worthless. Conversely, Samsung still has to actually manufacture their tablets: that's a undisputable effort spent and that does create value. Sure their tablets might look same-ish (there aren't that many fundamental designs for a tablet computer) but they haven't created any value in their design. At best Apple should just be flattered to see competitors imitating their looks; however, in no sensible world Apple shouldn't have a say what other companies or people can spend their time and effort in. Design is not property: there's no "intellectual property". Every time we try to treat mental works as property we fail majestetically, but then try to cough it up and cry for even stricter copyright restrictions.

trezor 15y ago

When you buy an Apple-product, no matter how shiny and polished it seems right there and then, you support this shit. Your newly acquired, polished Apple-product just made your hands dirty.

arron61 15y ago

I think JooJoo (aka CrunchPad) should sue Apple for design infringements. Clearly it came out before the iPad (JooJoo 2009, iPad 2010). When I see an iPad, I think of the JooJoo pad. It is rectangular; it has a bezel; and it's thin! Clearly these are all traits only for Apple and an iPad to use. Clearly Apple copied these traits just like how Android copied everything of iPhone. http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/gadgetlab/2009/12/main.jpg http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/gadgetlab/2009/12/main.jpg sarcastic rant

cageface 15y ago

It seems Apple now feels entitled to dictate the limits of choice not only within its own ecosystem but also without. This news comes in the same week that I finally try Android coding and find it much less scary than many people maintain and much more logical than iOS in many ways. Maybe this kind of bullying will tip the balance for me. According to Nielsen's most recent survey, 50% of the people buying Android phones are doing it out of active dislike of Apple as a company. Expect this number to grow as the public sees more products blocked like this. http://www.buzzom.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Android-vs-iPhone.jpg http://www.buzzom.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Android-vs-...

sharmajai 15y ago

I am waiting for Gruber's justification for this. I am sure he will be able to cook something up as he always does. On the other hand, I think this is one of those things, which have brought down Apple time and time again in the past, from the pinnacles of success to being competitively obsolete, mainly due to its inability to adapt to the changing market dynamics.

guard-of-terra 15y ago

If something like that would happen in Russia, surely people would say "I wonder how much did Apply pay to make it happen". But now, considering USA and Europe... How much did Apple /what/ to make it happen? P.S. Meanwhile you can still buy one in Russia, and is the ban stays I think those would go really cheap.

AAABBB 15y ago

I don't think there is any need to have any kind of technical discussion about this. Clearly Apple and the EU are morons of the highest order and anyone who tolerates either one is a moron him/her self. The fact that their lawyers thought they could harm billions of consumers based solely on the concept of shiny rectangles is mindboggling bullshit.