6 ms·

Are the rioters buying these or the people and shop owners who want to protect their property?

by itg 15y ago

Robin_Message 15y ago
Surely rioters? I find it hard to believe a shop owner is seriously going to try and hold the line by themselves against a mob. Also, a baseball bat is a classic disguised weapon but a shopkeeper will have no justification in having one so it is probably an offensive weapon in UK law. I've heard it said that D-cell Maglite torches are used by security guards not because they necessarily need a torch (a headtorch is generally more useful anyway), but because it can be carried and justified legally.
- srgseg 15y ago
  I find it hard to believe a shop owner is seriously going to try and hold the line by themselves against a mob Groups of shop owners are defending themselves. See this video http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2011/aug/09/london-riots-london http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2011/aug/09/london-riots-...
- troels 15y ago
  I find it quite believable that a poor immigrant whos entire economic security depends on his shop is going to defend it with is life.
- wisty 15y ago
  A rioter caught carrying a baseball bad would be in serious trouble. A bat is hard to conceal on a person. Anyone carrying one will become a target to the police, as they will know the rioter is a trouble maker. A shopkeeper can hide it under the counter.
- parallel 15y ago
  I've also heard this about large maglites. In fact they are often carried by being held near the globe end with the body of the torch resting on the shoulder. This allows the torch to be swung down onto a victim's collarbone breaking it and disabling that arm. (Apologies for the gruesome detail.)
- indrax 15y ago
  They don't have to be stronger than the mob, they just just to be stronger than the next shop.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
- hugh3 15y ago
  I'm pretty sure riot police have their weapons issued to them, and don't need to buy their own on Amazon.
tristanperry 15y ago
(UK poster here - living away from the riots though, thankfully) There was apparently a decently large group of Turkish business owners in London last night who got together with baseball bats to protect their businesses (which apparently worked). I'd say it's a bit of both.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- vidiviciveni 15y ago
  Ironic how the people defending their territory are not indigenous britains, but rather Turks. Guess Turks have more of a right to be there since they actually protect their land.
hugh3 15y ago
Rioters don't buy things, they steal them.
- Groxx 15y ago
  Everyone has to start from somewhere though, and stealing a bat from someone who's rioting doesn't seem like the best option when Amazon is perfectly willing to send one to you.
inovica 15y ago
I suspect many of these will be for home owners in these affected areas. Remember that whilst the shops are being targeted, that there are often many people cowering behind locked doors hoping that this will come to an end. This is a just a means of protection for them, should they need it. In the UK people are not allowed to own fire arms, but baseball bats are a different thing altogether.
- arethuza 15y ago
  "In the UK people are not allowed to own fire arms" That isn't strictly true - just that the licensing schemes are very strict and licenses will only be given for certain types of guns (e.g. shotguns) for certain reasons (hunting or work). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_Kingdom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_King...
ArbitraryLimits 15y ago
After seeing Korean shopowners in action during the LA riots in 1991, I'd always been curious how this scenario would play out in a country with gun control laws.
- caf 15y ago
  On a possibly related note, there don't seem to have been any reports of deaths yet (apart from the original suspect shot by police that seems to have been the spark in the powderkeg).
mortenjorck 15y ago
I would guess that many, if not a majority of the rioters lack a credit card, and quite possibly a registered permanent address for deliveries. These are people on the farthest margins of society, often with very little to lose.
- MrScruff 15y ago
  Do you have any evidence that would suggest that?
  - frederickcook 15y ago
    I found this post from last night insightful: http://pennyred.blogspot.com/2011/08/panic-on-streets-of-london.html http://pennyred.blogspot.com/2011/08/panic-on-streets-of-lon...
    - MrScruff 15y ago
      Yes, I read that earlier. What did you find insightful in it? The people involved aren't commenting on government policy. They're looting. I think some on the left are desperately trying to spin this as some sort of popular uprising but it's nothing of the sort.
      - andypants 15y ago
        Exactly, it's not (directly) political. These are poor people without jobs and opportunities, and gangsters and criminals. These guys sure aren't protesting any issues. Therefore I'd agree with mortenjorck, the majority of the rioters probably don't have credit cards and probably aren't the kind of people who order stuff from amazon.
        MrScruff 15y ago
        There are plenty of poor people in London, the vast majority of whom aren't looting shops. While I'd agree that the looters aren't likely ordering much from Amazon, I see no reason to think they lack homes or are 'on the farthest margins of society'. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424

Are the rioters buying these or the people and shop owners who want to protect their property?

by itg 15y ago

Are the rioters buying these or the people and shop owners who want to protect their property?

Surely rioters? I find it hard to believe a shop owner is seriously going to try and hold the line by themselves against a mob. Also, a baseball bat is a classic disguised weapon but a shopkeeper will have no justification in having one so it is probably an offensive weapon in UK law. I've heard it said that D-cell Maglite torches are used by security guards not because they necessarily need a torch (a headtorch is generally more useful anyway), but because it can be carried and justified legally.

srgseg 15y ago
I find it hard to believe a shop owner is seriously going to try and hold the line by themselves against a mob Groups of shop owners are defending themselves. See this video http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2011/aug/09/london-riots-london http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2011/aug/09/london-riots-...
troels 15y ago
I find it quite believable that a poor immigrant whos entire economic security depends on his shop is going to defend it with is life.
wisty 15y ago
A rioter caught carrying a baseball bad would be in serious trouble. A bat is hard to conceal on a person. Anyone carrying one will become a target to the police, as they will know the rioter is a trouble maker. A shopkeeper can hide it under the counter.
parallel 15y ago
I've also heard this about large maglites. In fact they are often carried by being held near the globe end with the body of the torch resting on the shoulder. This allows the torch to be swung down onto a victim's collarbone breaking it and disabling that arm. (Apologies for the gruesome detail.)
indrax 15y ago
They don't have to be stronger than the mob, they just just to be stronger than the next shop.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

hugh3 15y ago
I'm pretty sure riot police have their weapons issued to them, and don't need to buy their own on Amazon.

tristanperry 15y ago

(UK poster here - living away from the riots though, thankfully) There was apparently a decently large group of Turkish business owners in London last night who got together with baseball bats to protect their businesses (which apparently worked). I'd say it's a bit of both.

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
vidiviciveni 15y ago
Ironic how the people defending their territory are not indigenous britains, but rather Turks. Guess Turks have more of a right to be there since they actually protect their land.

hugh3 15y ago

Rioters don't buy things, they steal them.

Groxx 15y ago
Everyone has to start from somewhere though, and stealing a bat from someone who's rioting doesn't seem like the best option when Amazon is perfectly willing to send one to you.

inovica 15y ago

I suspect many of these will be for home owners in these affected areas. Remember that whilst the shops are being targeted, that there are often many people cowering behind locked doors hoping that this will come to an end. This is a just a means of protection for them, should they need it. In the UK people are not allowed to own fire arms, but baseball bats are a different thing altogether.

arethuza 15y ago
"In the UK people are not allowed to own fire arms" That isn't strictly true - just that the licensing schemes are very strict and licenses will only be given for certain types of guns (e.g. shotguns) for certain reasons (hunting or work). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_Kingdom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_King...

ArbitraryLimits 15y ago

After seeing Korean shopowners in action during the LA riots in 1991, I'd always been curious how this scenario would play out in a country with gun control laws.

caf 15y ago
On a possibly related note, there don't seem to have been any reports of deaths yet (apart from the original suspect shot by police that seems to have been the spark in the powderkeg).

mortenjorck 15y ago

I would guess that many, if not a majority of the rioters lack a credit card, and quite possibly a registered permanent address for deliveries. These are people on the farthest margins of society, often with very little to lose.

MrScruff 15y ago
Do you have any evidence that would suggest that?
- frederickcook 15y ago
  I found this post from last night insightful: http://pennyred.blogspot.com/2011/08/panic-on-streets-of-london.html http://pennyred.blogspot.com/2011/08/panic-on-streets-of-lon...
  - MrScruff 15y ago
    Yes, I read that earlier. What did you find insightful in it? The people involved aren't commenting on government policy. They're looting. I think some on the left are desperately trying to spin this as some sort of popular uprising but it's nothing of the sort.
    - andypants 15y ago
      Exactly, it's not (directly) political. These are poor people without jobs and opportunities, and gangsters and criminals. These guys sure aren't protesting any issues. Therefore I'd agree with mortenjorck, the majority of the rioters probably don't have credit cards and probably aren't the kind of people who order stuff from amazon.
      - MrScruff 15y ago
        There are plenty of poor people in London, the vast majority of whom aren't looting shops. While I'd agree that the looters aren't likely ordering much from Amazon, I see no reason to think they lack homes or are 'on the farthest margins of society'. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424