8 ms·

I own XPS 13 9380 with Windows 10. Same mess with the sleep. I have to carry the laptop in the bag when commuting. You never know what it is doing when lid is c

I own XPS 13 9380 with Windows 10. Same mess with the sleep. I have to carry the laptop in the bag when commuting. You never know what it is doing when lid is closed. There is no lights on the laptop to indicate its state so I just usually put it to my ear and listen until the fan goes off after closing the lid. Then it is semi safe to put it into the bag. Feels like stone age. Things are just getting worse with Windows and those standard PCs. I never understood why they moved to that S1 idle when S3 was fulfilling basic needs. This family Intel+Windows starts to irritate me. I am seriously considering either fully moving to Linux or to Apple Silicon and Mac OS.

spijdar 5y ago
FYI, these computers may lack proper firmware support to deep sleep on Linux as well, and will use s2idle sleep. I believe ARM Macs use the same type of sleep, only with more polished firmware and better vertical integration with the OS.
- terinjokes 5y ago
  Can confirm, 9310 (Late 2020, non-2-in-1), only has s2idle. Still "Ubuntu Certified" which, after this laptop, I've learn doesn't mean much.
superjan 5y ago
I absolutely agree that microsoft could and should make this work better. But the pragmatic workaround is the setting to force hibernation when you close the lid. You can resume from SSD in 10 seconds. No middle of the night wakeups. Much improved battery life.
- fsckboy 5y ago
  TFA says that hibernation is problematic for putting your computer into your bag. I understand what you mean by hibernation, and while it should not cause a problem... that's what the link says
  - londons_explore 5y ago
    When windows is hibernated, if a scheduled task is set for a specific time, it will use the hardware wake-up feature to turn on the machine and run the scheduled task. Windows has a lot of 3am scheduled tasks for all kinds of random stuff (disk defrag, various update checks, etc). Any of those can cause the system to reawaken.
- Dayshine 5y ago
  My dell xps hibernation doesn't work. 20% of the time it works. 40% of the time it won't wake and I have to kill it (screen stays dark even though keyboard indicates it is awake) 30% of the time it just immediately wakes 10% of the time it wakes at like 2am and power cycles my monitor every 30 seconds waking me up
  - drw85 5y ago
    In my case it also messes with many internal devices like webcam, USB etc. Half the time i have to reboot to make those work again.
  - zeven7 5y ago
    I'll back you up on this. I tried the trick to switch to hibernate, but it actually got worse for me than my problems with sleep.
  - YeGoblynQueenne 5y ago
    >> 10% of the time it wakes at like 2am and power cycles my monitor every 30 seconds waking me up My thinkpad does the same. Wtf is up with that?
    - GekkePrutser 5y ago
      My Mac did that too but I tracked it to Wake on LAN, some random probes from other equipment were walking it up sometimes.
      - oauea 5y ago
        What kind of evil IoT crapware is sending WoL packets to random devices on the network?
        GekkePrutser 5y ago
        It wasn't actual WoL. It was broadcasts. For some reason it woke the Mac up when WoL was switched on. We're taking 2015 or so so I don't have the packet logs anymore but I was able to replicate it by resending them. So the fault is really the Mac's. It should only accept real well formed WoL packets with its own Mac address.
- docmars 5y ago
  I had to do this with my ASUS Zephyrus G14 because it's an AMD-based machine and doesn't support a true Standby mode anyway. It's not the greatest coming from the Mac ecosystem where Sleep basically just works (well, most of the time, High Sierra screwed up a lot of things around that). To my knowledge, it hasn't woken up without my input and Hibernate doesn't eat the battery alive while it's asleep.
- alexeiz 5y ago
  The funny thing is that the "modern standby" was supposed to improve the wakeup time from a couple of seconds to a faction of a second. But effectively it turned the wakeup into 10 seconds because you have to disable the modern standby and use hibernate instead.
  - nikau 5y ago
    The whole idea of modern standby is brain dead. My laptop isn't a cellphone, I don't need it periodically waking up to check emails or whatever, it can do it when I open the lid. Thankfully my laptop has an option to force S3 only in the bios.
- hadlock 5y ago
  The problem with this is, you can force the laptop to use other sleep modes, but either a) dell disables those modes entirely in the BIOS b) windows update resets the sleep mode
- pitterpatter 5y ago
  That won't always save you, there have definitely been bugs where it tries to hibernate but gets stuck
mnadkvlb 5y ago
Recently bought a 7390 latitude (2-3 years old). amazing machine for basic remote desktop and basic office work etc. Battery lasts 10+ hrs on light work. Had the sleep states turned on and would randomly die at 60% battery while sleeping. Found out its a long standing bug in dells. Sometimes it just restarts the machine so if its in a bag it will just keep running. Turned of sleep states in firmware and instead now it goes to hibernate on sleep. No random behavior or shutdown. Its mind boggling this shit used to work totally fine on older laptops, no idea what changed.
- IncRnd 5y ago
  The laptops can enter a special standby mode that keeps the network alive, so they will immediately resume when the lid opens. This means, of course, that the laptops never actually shut down and run constantly.
  - mnadkvlb 5y ago
    true, but i actually turn that explicitly off on physical network settings in windows. My guess is windows will apparently not let u control such things, as the advertising data pipe has to be alive no matter what. Microsft seems to be both google and apple at the same time, selling ads and hardware.
    - IncRnd 5y ago
      I'm really sorry that didn't work for you.
- cma 5y ago
  Had the same with Apple. An update made it quit sleeping correctly when using a microsd card to expand storage (it worked fine at first).
  - x0x0 5y ago
    Me too. The Yubikey nano -- the little one meant to be permanently left in a usb slot your laptop -- absolutely nukes the battery in my mac, draining it on "sleep" to zero within a day or so. Infuriating incompetence.
squeaky-clean 5y ago
I had a dell laptop around 2012 that had this same problem, on Windows 7. I also remember holding it up to my ear to confirm it shut down haha. And it did wake itself up and overheat in my bag a couple times. I've just avoided Dell ever since when I can. My current work laptop is some sort of Dell XPS, but at least I didn't pay for it.
ypcx 5y ago
Writing this from my 2019 XPS 15 7590 i9 with (extended) 64 GB RAM. The OLED display quality is still the best any laptop can offer, but that's where it ends. Had countless issues with sleep, reboots after being "killed in sleep" for going over Windows sleep "battery drain limit" (can be increased in registry but hey), wifi/bt issues after wake-up, short battery endurance, fan noise (mitigated by undervolting w/ ThrottleStop). (In case I may sound too dramatic, check their forums: https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/bd-p/XPS https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/bd-p/XPS) Then there's the classic Windows Laptop "goodness" like bad keyboards, bad trackpad (too much scrolling, jagged scrolling, bad trackpad surface), necessity to emulate Linux/Git/Wsl/Cygwin for any real dev work, having elaborate install.txt procedures for setting up a new laptop. I wanted to have a "beefy" machine but since I can now do my play things on Google Colab (and my work on company's Macbook), I just ordered the last year's M1 Macbook Air and I'm done with this Dante's Inferno of Windows Laptop ecosystem. Windows 11 just reinforced my disbelief that Microsoft can produce usable operating system before our civilization reaches Singularity.
- bscphil 5y ago
  > like bad keyboards, bad trackpad (too much scrolling, jagged scrolling, bad trackpad surface) Curious to hear more about the keyboard / trackpad issues you're seeing. I have an older XPS model, which has the best laptop keyboard I've ever used (better than any MacBook I've tried) and a great trackpad too (I haven't used a MacBook from the last several years, but it's hard to beat physical left/right buttons). Has the touchpad changed? Mine is extremely smooth, it does not stick to your finger at all, and has no texturing on the surface like cheap laptops sometimes do. Furthermore, I'm curious if you've tried Linux on the laptop at all. In the past, most issues I had with "bad" trackpads (other than when the surface itself was bad) were resolved by installing Linux, where the drivers simply worked better than on Windows and were generally more configurable (although the advent of libinput changed that).
  - EugeneOZ 5y ago
    My son has the same model. The keyboard is not that bad, I even like it. But issues with the sleep mode and with the trackpad - they overweight everything and I’ve bought an M1 Air for him.
axegon_ 5y ago
I got a new laptop earlier this year and I was eyeing this exact one. I was going to wipe out windows and put linux on it(as is tradition with me) but I ended up settling for an Asus once again. It seems like you can get a lot more bang for the buck with Asus in Europe. Can't say it has been an entirely smooth ride for one or two reasons(running a patched kernel driver for the screen backlight) but after reading your comment, I am glad I made that call.
qudat 5y ago
Im currently in the process of getting a framework laptop setup using arch+wayland+sway and I'm not convinced it's any better on this side. Something as simple as a screensaver requires xwayland which is frustrating.
tim333 5y ago
I can recommend the M1 air which has surprised me the other direction in hardly using any battery while sleeping. The prior Intel macbook used a lot more.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
dheera 5y ago
Same with Linux honestly. I suspended a Linux laptop, shoved it in the bag, got on the train, little did I know that it didn't actually go into suspend. Like WTF, if the lid is closed, the hardware should force it to suspend, not get stuck in some software. If the software doesn't respond in time then force the damn thing off. It heated up like mad, even too hot to touch. Was worried about the possibility of a Lithium battery explosion. If that happened who do you sue, Canonical or the laptop manufacturer?
alexeiz 5y ago
> listen until the fan goes off after closing the lid I knew I wasn't the only one who does it!
afavour 5y ago
FWIW my (Intel) MacBook does the same. Sometimes it just doesn't go to sleep when I close the lid and it's not clear why, so I have to listen for the fans. So dumb.
nerdwaller 5y ago
My sample size is 1, but so far I am not impressed that my wife's M1 MBP didn't last more than 4 months before needing a full mainboard replacement. She's not a power-user and I would expect a "pro" laptop to be more resilient than this (even in the exceptional cases).

spijdar 5y ago

FYI, these computers may lack proper firmware support to deep sleep on Linux as well, and will use s2idle sleep. I believe ARM Macs use the same type of sleep, only with more polished firmware and better vertical integration with the OS.

terinjokes 5y ago
Can confirm, 9310 (Late 2020, non-2-in-1), only has s2idle. Still "Ubuntu Certified" which, after this laptop, I've learn doesn't mean much.

superjan 5y ago

I absolutely agree that microsoft could and should make this work better. But the pragmatic workaround is the setting to force hibernation when you close the lid. You can resume from SSD in 10 seconds. No middle of the night wakeups. Much improved battery life.

fsckboy 5y ago
TFA says that hibernation is problematic for putting your computer into your bag. I understand what you mean by hibernation, and while it should not cause a problem... that's what the link says
- londons_explore 5y ago
  When windows is hibernated, if a scheduled task is set for a specific time, it will use the hardware wake-up feature to turn on the machine and run the scheduled task. Windows has a lot of 3am scheduled tasks for all kinds of random stuff (disk defrag, various update checks, etc). Any of those can cause the system to reawaken.
Dayshine 5y ago
My dell xps hibernation doesn't work. 20% of the time it works. 40% of the time it won't wake and I have to kill it (screen stays dark even though keyboard indicates it is awake) 30% of the time it just immediately wakes 10% of the time it wakes at like 2am and power cycles my monitor every 30 seconds waking me up
- drw85 5y ago
  In my case it also messes with many internal devices like webcam, USB etc. Half the time i have to reboot to make those work again.
- zeven7 5y ago
  I'll back you up on this. I tried the trick to switch to hibernate, but it actually got worse for me than my problems with sleep.
- YeGoblynQueenne 5y ago
  >> 10% of the time it wakes at like 2am and power cycles my monitor every 30 seconds waking me up My thinkpad does the same. Wtf is up with that?
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    My Mac did that too but I tracked it to Wake on LAN, some random probes from other equipment were walking it up sometimes.
    - oauea 5y ago
      What kind of evil IoT crapware is sending WoL packets to random devices on the network?
      - GekkePrutser 5y ago
        It wasn't actual WoL. It was broadcasts. For some reason it woke the Mac up when WoL was switched on. We're taking 2015 or so so I don't have the packet logs anymore but I was able to replicate it by resending them. So the fault is really the Mac's. It should only accept real well formed WoL packets with its own Mac address.
docmars 5y ago
I had to do this with my ASUS Zephyrus G14 because it's an AMD-based machine and doesn't support a true Standby mode anyway. It's not the greatest coming from the Mac ecosystem where Sleep basically just works (well, most of the time, High Sierra screwed up a lot of things around that). To my knowledge, it hasn't woken up without my input and Hibernate doesn't eat the battery alive while it's asleep.
alexeiz 5y ago
The funny thing is that the "modern standby" was supposed to improve the wakeup time from a couple of seconds to a faction of a second. But effectively it turned the wakeup into 10 seconds because you have to disable the modern standby and use hibernate instead.
- nikau 5y ago
  The whole idea of modern standby is brain dead. My laptop isn't a cellphone, I don't need it periodically waking up to check emails or whatever, it can do it when I open the lid. Thankfully my laptop has an option to force S3 only in the bios.
hadlock 5y ago
The problem with this is, you can force the laptop to use other sleep modes, but either a) dell disables those modes entirely in the BIOS b) windows update resets the sleep mode
pitterpatter 5y ago
That won't always save you, there have definitely been bugs where it tries to hibernate but gets stuck

mnadkvlb 5y ago

Recently bought a 7390 latitude (2-3 years old). amazing machine for basic remote desktop and basic office work etc. Battery lasts 10+ hrs on light work. Had the sleep states turned on and would randomly die at 60% battery while sleeping. Found out its a long standing bug in dells. Sometimes it just restarts the machine so if its in a bag it will just keep running. Turned of sleep states in firmware and instead now it goes to hibernate on sleep. No random behavior or shutdown. Its mind boggling this shit used to work totally fine on older laptops, no idea what changed.

IncRnd 5y ago
The laptops can enter a special standby mode that keeps the network alive, so they will immediately resume when the lid opens. This means, of course, that the laptops never actually shut down and run constantly.
- mnadkvlb 5y ago
  true, but i actually turn that explicitly off on physical network settings in windows. My guess is windows will apparently not let u control such things, as the advertising data pipe has to be alive no matter what. Microsft seems to be both google and apple at the same time, selling ads and hardware.
  - IncRnd 5y ago
    I'm really sorry that didn't work for you.
cma 5y ago
Had the same with Apple. An update made it quit sleeping correctly when using a microsd card to expand storage (it worked fine at first).
- x0x0 5y ago
  Me too. The Yubikey nano -- the little one meant to be permanently left in a usb slot your laptop -- absolutely nukes the battery in my mac, draining it on "sleep" to zero within a day or so. Infuriating incompetence.

squeaky-clean 5y ago

I had a dell laptop around 2012 that had this same problem, on Windows 7. I also remember holding it up to my ear to confirm it shut down haha. And it did wake itself up and overheat in my bag a couple times. I've just avoided Dell ever since when I can. My current work laptop is some sort of Dell XPS, but at least I didn't pay for it.

ypcx 5y ago

Writing this from my 2019 XPS 15 7590 i9 with (extended) 64 GB RAM. The OLED display quality is still the best any laptop can offer, but that's where it ends. Had countless issues with sleep, reboots after being "killed in sleep" for going over Windows sleep "battery drain limit" (can be increased in registry but hey), wifi/bt issues after wake-up, short battery endurance, fan noise (mitigated by undervolting w/ ThrottleStop). (In case I may sound too dramatic, check their forums: https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/bd-p/XPS https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/bd-p/XPS) Then there's the classic Windows Laptop "goodness" like bad keyboards, bad trackpad (too much scrolling, jagged scrolling, bad trackpad surface), necessity to emulate Linux/Git/Wsl/Cygwin for any real dev work, having elaborate install.txt procedures for setting up a new laptop. I wanted to have a "beefy" machine but since I can now do my play things on Google Colab (and my work on company's Macbook), I just ordered the last year's M1 Macbook Air and I'm done with this Dante's Inferno of Windows Laptop ecosystem. Windows 11 just reinforced my disbelief that Microsoft can produce usable operating system before our civilization reaches Singularity.

bscphil 5y ago
> like bad keyboards, bad trackpad (too much scrolling, jagged scrolling, bad trackpad surface) Curious to hear more about the keyboard / trackpad issues you're seeing. I have an older XPS model, which has the best laptop keyboard I've ever used (better than any MacBook I've tried) and a great trackpad too (I haven't used a MacBook from the last several years, but it's hard to beat physical left/right buttons). Has the touchpad changed? Mine is extremely smooth, it does not stick to your finger at all, and has no texturing on the surface like cheap laptops sometimes do. Furthermore, I'm curious if you've tried Linux on the laptop at all. In the past, most issues I had with "bad" trackpads (other than when the surface itself was bad) were resolved by installing Linux, where the drivers simply worked better than on Windows and were generally more configurable (although the advent of libinput changed that).
- EugeneOZ 5y ago
  My son has the same model. The keyboard is not that bad, I even like it. But issues with the sleep mode and with the trackpad - they overweight everything and I’ve bought an M1 Air for him.

axegon_ 5y ago

I got a new laptop earlier this year and I was eyeing this exact one. I was going to wipe out windows and put linux on it(as is tradition with me) but I ended up settling for an Asus once again. It seems like you can get a lot more bang for the buck with Asus in Europe. Can't say it has been an entirely smooth ride for one or two reasons(running a patched kernel driver for the screen backlight) but after reading your comment, I am glad I made that call.

qudat 5y ago

Im currently in the process of getting a framework laptop setup using arch+wayland+sway and I'm not convinced it's any better on this side. Something as simple as a screensaver requires xwayland which is frustrating.

tim333 5y ago

I can recommend the M1 air which has surprised me the other direction in hardly using any battery while sleeping. The prior Intel macbook used a lot more.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

dheera 5y ago

Same with Linux honestly. I suspended a Linux laptop, shoved it in the bag, got on the train, little did I know that it didn't actually go into suspend. Like WTF, if the lid is closed, the hardware should force it to suspend, not get stuck in some software. If the software doesn't respond in time then force the damn thing off. It heated up like mad, even too hot to touch. Was worried about the possibility of a Lithium battery explosion. If that happened who do you sue, Canonical or the laptop manufacturer?

alexeiz 5y ago

> listen until the fan goes off after closing the lid I knew I wasn't the only one who does it!

afavour 5y ago

FWIW my (Intel) MacBook does the same. Sometimes it just doesn't go to sleep when I close the lid and it's not clear why, so I have to listen for the fans. So dumb.

nerdwaller 5y ago

My sample size is 1, but so far I am not impressed that my wife's M1 MBP didn't last more than 4 months before needing a full mainboard replacement. She's not a power-user and I would expect a "pro" laptop to be more resilient than this (even in the exceptional cases).