5 ms·

This is an interesting article. It also makes me think that this kind of analysis presents a lot of opportunities. Take for example the Chinese beef being lab

by OldHand2018 5y ago

This is an interesting article. It also makes me think that this kind of analysis presents a lot of opportunities. Take for example the Chinese beef being labeled as premium New Zealand beef and sold for much higher prices in supermarkets. If shoppers can't tell the difference without this analysis, then it implies that the price differential between these two products is larger than it should be. That specific Chinese beef producer is likely selling his product to a wholesaler at a standard (low) price. It is somewhere else in the supply chain that the mislabeling comes in - and that is the entity that makes the profit. If that beef producer was aware that his beef is selling at a much higher retail price, then he should be selling his product to the wholesaler at a much higher price. What prevents this from happening? Well, knowledge (and a marketing budget). There should be plenty of capital available to solve that problem :)

runsWphotons 5y ago
I don’t think it’s true it implies the price differential is wrong. Just because you can’t tell the difference by consuming it, it doesn’t mean there is no difference you should care about.
jdavis703 5y ago
In a lot of cases we can taste the difference. Organic vs. conventional chicken has a different mouthfeel. And Wagyu Beef vs. regular beef also has a similar different feel. However I also buy free-range organic eggs and milk. I’d have no idea if those products were mislabeled. But it also makes me feel better I’m not contributing to cruel factory farming and antibiotic abuse. If that’s not the case, oh well. I did all I could reasonably do aside from going vegan.
- OldHand2018 5y ago
  You can't pass off non-Wagyu beef as Wagyu beef unless the consumer doesn't know what Wagyu beef is. I totally disagree with the organic vs conventional chicken argument. I would suggest that the difference you notice is the breed of the chicken. Organic vs non-organic and free-range vs non-free-range is not something where you'd say that there is an information arbitrage opportunity. The concept was that this analysis could be used to identify opportunity, not that every single instance of label fraud was an opportunity. Sheesh.
  - jdavis703 5y ago
    You could very well be right about chicken breeds. I never thought about different breeds tasting different. I know there are super-sized industrial ones which taste horrible. But what are good small chicken breeds? And would a fancy/organic supermarket butcher be a good source for this?
    - OldHand2018 5y ago
      Those are good questions and I don't know that I can give you good answers. I think the answer would be yes about the butcher. I just moved out to the "country" and might raise some chickens myself. If so, I'll be doing some research into the breeds that have the best flavor.
    - bserge 5y ago
      Can't say about the breeds, but the cheap supermarket victims of Henschwitz taste pretty bad compared to actual free range hens most likely because the latter move around instead of being stuck in a cage.
  - dkarl 5y ago
    It could also be the brine pumped into the non-organic chicken. I don't know if pumping brine into chicken affects its organic status or not, but the organic chickens I see at the store do not have brine or chicken broth listed as ingredients, while the non-organic ones do.
- the_pwner224 5y ago
  I find it hard to tell with milk, but for eggs it's generally pretty obvious by looking at the yolk. Small and unsaturated yellow in mass produced eggs; larger and a deep orange color in the higher quality eggs that I've purchased. That can't quantify free range or organic, but given that the eggs which are labeled free range / organic have this noticeable difference in their contents, I think it's safe to assume the chickens were treated better and taken care of.
mabub24 5y ago
> If shoppers can't tell the difference without this analysis, then it implies that the price differential between these two products is larger than it should be. Or that the shopper has misplaced trust in the seller/grocery store.
pjc50 5y ago
> If that beef producer was aware that his beef is selling at a much higher retail price, then he should be selling his product to the wholesaler at a much higher price You can't be a retail beef producer in China boldly claiming to produce New Zealand beef. The value-enhancing fraud has to happen a bit higher up the chain. > If shoppers can't tell the difference without this analysis Provenance matters even if the difference is undetectable.
fay59 5y ago
Meat produced in New Zealand might be more sustainable, or ethically farmed, or have a smaller environmental transportation footprint if you’re in New Zealand, than meat from somewhere else. People paying premium for meat may be interested in all of these things—in fact, they may be interested in these things even over the taste of the meat.
stickfigure 5y ago
The quality of natural products like beef is probabilistic. You might not be able to tell a poor example of a premium product from a good example of a low-end brand. And if you buy infrequently, you might not know what you're missing. Just because the scam works doesn't mean there isn't a perceptible difference.
oh_sigh 5y ago
I can't tell the difference between leaded and unleaded gas. So it shouldn't matter if I use leaded gas.
908B64B197 5y ago
> If shoppers can't tell the difference without this analysis, then it implies that the price differential between these two products is larger than it should be. But their bodies might. Standards for meat are much higher in New Zealand than in China. I would be curious to have a health inspector take a look at the facilities where the beef was produced and handled... Let's just say the country isn't new to food safety scandals... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutter_oil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutter_oil https://www.businessinsider.com.au/chinese-street-vendors-use-gutter-oil-2013-10 https://www.businessinsider.com.au/chinese-street-vendors-us...
- dunmalg 5y ago
  >Let's just say the country isn't new to food safety scandals... Yeah, just because I can't taste the melamine they used to water down the milk doesn't mean I want to drink melamine. I especially don't want to drink the chemical they later added in addition to melamine in order to spoof the melamine detection process and continue to sell watered down, tainted milk. The low end of food production has some seriously determined bad actors. "Let the consumer decide" definitely isn't good enough.
dillondoyle 5y ago
The environmental impacts and animal welfare are probably an issue for many consumers, so even if can't tell the difference they might be fooled into thinking their cow had a free pasture or something.

runsWphotons 5y ago

I don’t think it’s true it implies the price differential is wrong. Just because you can’t tell the difference by consuming it, it doesn’t mean there is no difference you should care about.

jdavis703 5y ago

In a lot of cases we can taste the difference. Organic vs. conventional chicken has a different mouthfeel. And Wagyu Beef vs. regular beef also has a similar different feel. However I also buy free-range organic eggs and milk. I’d have no idea if those products were mislabeled. But it also makes me feel better I’m not contributing to cruel factory farming and antibiotic abuse. If that’s not the case, oh well. I did all I could reasonably do aside from going vegan.

OldHand2018 5y ago
You can't pass off non-Wagyu beef as Wagyu beef unless the consumer doesn't know what Wagyu beef is. I totally disagree with the organic vs conventional chicken argument. I would suggest that the difference you notice is the breed of the chicken. Organic vs non-organic and free-range vs non-free-range is not something where you'd say that there is an information arbitrage opportunity. The concept was that this analysis could be used to identify opportunity, not that every single instance of label fraud was an opportunity. Sheesh.
- jdavis703 5y ago
  You could very well be right about chicken breeds. I never thought about different breeds tasting different. I know there are super-sized industrial ones which taste horrible. But what are good small chicken breeds? And would a fancy/organic supermarket butcher be a good source for this?
  - OldHand2018 5y ago
    Those are good questions and I don't know that I can give you good answers. I think the answer would be yes about the butcher. I just moved out to the "country" and might raise some chickens myself. If so, I'll be doing some research into the breeds that have the best flavor.
  - bserge 5y ago
    Can't say about the breeds, but the cheap supermarket victims of Henschwitz taste pretty bad compared to actual free range hens most likely because the latter move around instead of being stuck in a cage.
- dkarl 5y ago
  It could also be the brine pumped into the non-organic chicken. I don't know if pumping brine into chicken affects its organic status or not, but the organic chickens I see at the store do not have brine or chicken broth listed as ingredients, while the non-organic ones do.
the_pwner224 5y ago
I find it hard to tell with milk, but for eggs it's generally pretty obvious by looking at the yolk. Small and unsaturated yellow in mass produced eggs; larger and a deep orange color in the higher quality eggs that I've purchased. That can't quantify free range or organic, but given that the eggs which are labeled free range / organic have this noticeable difference in their contents, I think it's safe to assume the chickens were treated better and taken care of.

mabub24 5y ago

> If shoppers can't tell the difference without this analysis, then it implies that the price differential between these two products is larger than it should be. Or that the shopper has misplaced trust in the seller/grocery store.

pjc50 5y ago

> If that beef producer was aware that his beef is selling at a much higher retail price, then he should be selling his product to the wholesaler at a much higher price You can't be a retail beef producer in China boldly claiming to produce New Zealand beef. The value-enhancing fraud has to happen a bit higher up the chain. > If shoppers can't tell the difference without this analysis Provenance matters even if the difference is undetectable.

fay59 5y ago

Meat produced in New Zealand might be more sustainable, or ethically farmed, or have a smaller environmental transportation footprint if you’re in New Zealand, than meat from somewhere else. People paying premium for meat may be interested in all of these things—in fact, they may be interested in these things even over the taste of the meat.

stickfigure 5y ago

The quality of natural products like beef is probabilistic. You might not be able to tell a poor example of a premium product from a good example of a low-end brand. And if you buy infrequently, you might not know what you're missing. Just because the scam works doesn't mean there isn't a perceptible difference.

oh_sigh 5y ago

I can't tell the difference between leaded and unleaded gas. So it shouldn't matter if I use leaded gas.

908B64B197 5y ago

> If shoppers can't tell the difference without this analysis, then it implies that the price differential between these two products is larger than it should be. But their bodies might. Standards for meat are much higher in New Zealand than in China. I would be curious to have a health inspector take a look at the facilities where the beef was produced and handled... Let's just say the country isn't new to food safety scandals... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutter_oil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutter_oil https://www.businessinsider.com.au/chinese-street-vendors-use-gutter-oil-2013-10 https://www.businessinsider.com.au/chinese-street-vendors-us...

dunmalg 5y ago
>Let's just say the country isn't new to food safety scandals... Yeah, just because I can't taste the melamine they used to water down the milk doesn't mean I want to drink melamine. I especially don't want to drink the chemical they later added in addition to melamine in order to spoof the melamine detection process and continue to sell watered down, tainted milk. The low end of food production has some seriously determined bad actors. "Let the consumer decide" definitely isn't good enough.

dillondoyle 5y ago

The environmental impacts and animal welfare are probably an issue for many consumers, so even if can't tell the difference they might be fooled into thinking their cow had a free pasture or something.