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If it was really an issue, wouldn't free market forces have paved the way to widespread fuel alternative consumption a long time ago? Sure you can force everyon

If it was really an issue, wouldn't free market forces have paved the way to widespread fuel alternative consumption a long time ago? Sure you can force everyone to stop using gasoline and buy an electric car but there are costs to that. I think most people believe there are more dire issues that need fixing and funding.

deleted 5y ago
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mattnewton 5y ago
I think the issue is that the costs of using fossil fuels are “external” to the purchaser, so a market solution doesn’t work until the negative externality of pumping co2 into our shared atmosphere can be accounted for. It would be like expecting people who dump their industrial waste upstream in a river to be corrected by market forces - the market will probably choose that people don’t care about the down river people as long as they get their goods slightly cheaper. Also a wrinkle in a pure market based solution is that the US substantially subsidizes fossil fuels because I think the 70’s taught politicians that fuel price shocks will get them voted out immediately. https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-fossil-fuel-subsidies-a-closer-look-at-tax-breaks-and-societal-costs https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-fossil-fuel-subs...
invisible 5y ago
I'm not sure I understand your point. The free market is slowly moving toward alternative fuels, albeit slowly. That's part of why your local energy utility is likely using a combination of sources. It's why you can see solar panels when you drive around any non-shaded resident affluent communities. Many governments around the world see the issue and have made agreements to address it, insofar as they can and on a timeline of a century.
orthecreedence 5y ago
The capitalist solution to climate change is building condos in Antarctica. Capitalist markets are probably the most short-term problem solving mechanism you could ever find for an economy. > I think most people believe there are more dire issues that need fixing and funding. No, they're stuck in a shitty system that doesn't allow them to price resources according to their externalities. People aren't going to opt to pay more for fossil fuels than they have to because it would require a critical mass of buy-in. The only solution is taxation, but that doesn't work either because the system offers no safety nets and gasoline suddenly jumping to $20/gallon (which is what it should cost now) would be financially devastating to citizens. Markets work great at lower populations, and now we're beginning to see their failure modes when population has skyrocketed and rampant resource consumption causes existential damage. Everyone knows it's a problem, but there's no systemic way of solving it. We're now at a point in humanity where supply and demand alone are insufficient mechanisms to organize an economy.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

mattnewton 5y ago

I think the issue is that the costs of using fossil fuels are “external” to the purchaser, so a market solution doesn’t work until the negative externality of pumping co2 into our shared atmosphere can be accounted for. It would be like expecting people who dump their industrial waste upstream in a river to be corrected by market forces - the market will probably choose that people don’t care about the down river people as long as they get their goods slightly cheaper. Also a wrinkle in a pure market based solution is that the US substantially subsidizes fossil fuels because I think the 70’s taught politicians that fuel price shocks will get them voted out immediately. https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-fossil-fuel-subsidies-a-closer-look-at-tax-breaks-and-societal-costs https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-fossil-fuel-subs...

invisible 5y ago

I'm not sure I understand your point. The free market is slowly moving toward alternative fuels, albeit slowly. That's part of why your local energy utility is likely using a combination of sources. It's why you can see solar panels when you drive around any non-shaded resident affluent communities. Many governments around the world see the issue and have made agreements to address it, insofar as they can and on a timeline of a century.

orthecreedence 5y ago

The capitalist solution to climate change is building condos in Antarctica. Capitalist markets are probably the most short-term problem solving mechanism you could ever find for an economy. > I think most people believe there are more dire issues that need fixing and funding. No, they're stuck in a shitty system that doesn't allow them to price resources according to their externalities. People aren't going to opt to pay more for fossil fuels than they have to because it would require a critical mass of buy-in. The only solution is taxation, but that doesn't work either because the system offers no safety nets and gasoline suddenly jumping to $20/gallon (which is what it should cost now) would be financially devastating to citizens. Markets work great at lower populations, and now we're beginning to see their failure modes when population has skyrocketed and rampant resource consumption causes existential damage. Everyone knows it's a problem, but there's no systemic way of solving it. We're now at a point in humanity where supply and demand alone are insufficient mechanisms to organize an economy.