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Your link only says that a "investment contract" is a security, not that all securities are "investment contracts".

by josefx 5y ago

gruez 5y ago
>not that all securities are "investment contracts". If you search around people do seem to think that "investment contracts" are "security" (eg. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/howey-test.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/howey-test.asp) although I can't find someone saying "investment contracts iff security". If that's not the case, can you list what else counts as securities, and why do you think stablecoins meets those definitions?
- josefx 5y ago
  I am far from an expert however following https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/seact1934.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/seact1934.asp the SEC can over see over the counter securieties (https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/otc.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/otc.asp) that seems to cover financial contracts that derive their value from an underlying asset. As far as I understand Tether is backing its value with dollars and has already been in trouble over lending the money it officially used to back its cryptocurrency away without disclosing that to its users.
  - gruez 5y ago
    But that argument only applies if the underlying asset is a security, right? Is cash a security?
abduhl 5y ago
Securities are defined under 15 USC 77b(a)(1) (1) The term “security” means any note, stock, treasury stock, security future, security-based swap, bond, debenture, evidence of indebtedness, certificate of interest or participation in any profit-sharing agreement, collateral-trust certificate, preorganization certificate or subscription, transferable share, investment contract, voting-trust certificate, certificate of deposit for a security, fractional undivided interest in oil, gas, or other mineral rights, any put, call, straddle, option, or privilege on any security, certificate of deposit, or group or index of securities (including any interest therein or based on the value thereof), or any put, call, straddle, option, or privilege entered into on a national securities exchange relating to foreign currency, or, in general, any interest or instrument commonly known as a “security”, or any certificate of interest or participation in, temporary or interim certificate for, receipt for, guarantee of, or warrant or right to subscribe to or purchase, any of the foregoing.

Your link only says that a "investment contract" is a security, not that all securities are "investment contracts".

by josefx 5y ago

Your link only says that a "investment contract" is a security, not that all securities are "investment contracts".

>not that all securities are "investment contracts". If you search around people do seem to think that "investment contracts" are "security" (eg. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/howey-test.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/howey-test.asp) although I can't find someone saying "investment contracts iff security". If that's not the case, can you list what else counts as securities, and why do you think stablecoins meets those definitions?

josefx 5y ago
I am far from an expert however following https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/seact1934.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/seact1934.asp the SEC can over see over the counter securieties (https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/otc.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/otc.asp) that seems to cover financial contracts that derive their value from an underlying asset. As far as I understand Tether is backing its value with dollars and has already been in trouble over lending the money it officially used to back its cryptocurrency away without disclosing that to its users.
- gruez 5y ago
  But that argument only applies if the underlying asset is a security, right? Is cash a security?

abduhl 5y ago

Securities are defined under 15 USC 77b(a)(1) (1) The term “security” means any note, stock, treasury stock, security future, security-based swap, bond, debenture, evidence of indebtedness, certificate of interest or participation in any profit-sharing agreement, collateral-trust certificate, preorganization certificate or subscription, transferable share, investment contract, voting-trust certificate, certificate of deposit for a security, fractional undivided interest in oil, gas, or other mineral rights, any put, call, straddle, option, or privilege on any security, certificate of deposit, or group or index of securities (including any interest therein or based on the value thereof), or any put, call, straddle, option, or privilege entered into on a national securities exchange relating to foreign currency, or, in general, any interest or instrument commonly known as a “security”, or any certificate of interest or participation in, temporary or interim certificate for, receipt for, guarantee of, or warrant or right to subscribe to or purchase, any of the foregoing.