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Why Such framework doesn’t get as much love as full front end framework ? They are working fine in real world. Any similar ( apart from hey and basecamp ) real

Why Such framework doesn’t get as much love as full front end framework ? They are working fine in real world. Any similar ( apart from hey and basecamp ) real life example ?

bingohbangoh 5y ago
IMHO, Turbolinks is not as effective as a "real" frontend framework. Frontend development work is like managing a huge state machine. You make a modification here, a value changes here, and the whole frontend apparatus shifts to reflect this. ReactJS got this right, particularly because you can closely couple it with Redux or Flux. Things like Turbolinks (or jQuery or HTMX) require you to manage this state on your own and any sufficiently complicated project becomes very untenable very quickly. This has gotten more and more apparent as they keep adding features to Turbolinks. State management is still a pain.
- clairity 5y ago
  this is turbo, not turbolinks, so your critique is misplaced. turbo moves state management back to the server, using subregions (turbo frames) for flexible targeting and websockets to push (html, not json) state to the client with low latency. in doing so, turbo relegates javascript to its original mission of enhancing the frontend (e.g., stimulus as a companion to turbo), not being the frontend. js is much better at this limited role than being a general-purpose app language. the sooner we can move past the unwieldy patchball that is react (and angular, node, yarn, webpack, endless transpiling/bundling pipelines, etc.), the better.
- mlboss 5y ago
  The responsibility of state management shifts from client to server. Which is my opinion is a better option. No need to understand/maintain two different applications.
ericb 5y ago
> Why Such framework doesn’t get as much love as full front end framework ? Mainly because the paradigm shift away from SPA's is just beginning. Whoever convinced everyone that maintaining two applications (one front-end, and one back end) is somehow more efficient could make a killing selling bridges.

Why Such framework doesn’t get as much love as full front end framework ? They are working fine in real world. Any similar ( apart from hey and basecamp ) real life example ?

bingohbangoh 5y ago

IMHO, Turbolinks is not as effective as a "real" frontend framework. Frontend development work is like managing a huge state machine. You make a modification here, a value changes here, and the whole frontend apparatus shifts to reflect this. ReactJS got this right, particularly because you can closely couple it with Redux or Flux. Things like Turbolinks (or jQuery or HTMX) require you to manage this state on your own and any sufficiently complicated project becomes very untenable very quickly. This has gotten more and more apparent as they keep adding features to Turbolinks. State management is still a pain.

clairity 5y ago
this is turbo, not turbolinks, so your critique is misplaced. turbo moves state management back to the server, using subregions (turbo frames) for flexible targeting and websockets to push (html, not json) state to the client with low latency. in doing so, turbo relegates javascript to its original mission of enhancing the frontend (e.g., stimulus as a companion to turbo), not being the frontend. js is much better at this limited role than being a general-purpose app language. the sooner we can move past the unwieldy patchball that is react (and angular, node, yarn, webpack, endless transpiling/bundling pipelines, etc.), the better.
mlboss 5y ago
The responsibility of state management shifts from client to server. Which is my opinion is a better option. No need to understand/maintain two different applications.

ericb 5y ago

> Why Such framework doesn’t get as much love as full front end framework ? Mainly because the paradigm shift away from SPA's is just beginning. Whoever convinced everyone that maintaining two applications (one front-end, and one back end) is somehow more efficient could make a killing selling bridges.