5 ms·

I've trained my memory over the last ~5 years. I became fascinated with oral cultures. How could they transmit enough knowledge to survive and basically confe

by mrock 5y ago

I've trained my memory over the last ~5 years. I became fascinated with oral cultures. How could they transmit enough knowledge to survive and basically confer PhD level knowledge of survival without books? How could they remember it all? How does your experience of the world change when every place you find yourself is (mentally) chock full of (your most prized) memories? I also wanted to get more out of reading. I used to read a book, maybe take notes and hopefully take some new action. Next year it's gone, maybe I recall 3 ideas. How could I get more out of reading? So I memorized books. Convert a book into 100-250 bullet points, memorize them in a memory palace. If I don't practice recalling my palaces, at least once every 6 months or so, I'll forget it. However, this isn't a negative. When recalling you can ask yourself questions about the knowledge. How is the relevant to my life right now? How can I apply this? How does the world look using this knowledge as a lens? How does this compare or contrast to other things I've memorized? At first this was an enormous effort. But with all training it gets faster. We've all spent thousands of hours learning to read. Now reading is unconscious, you see a word and instantly you know the concept behind. My first book took about 4 hours and reviewing it took an hour. Now reviewing a book (250 items) takes under 15 mins, and I can do it while making dinner or driving. People can memorize a deck of cards (52 facts in order) in two minutes. Eventually, I believe it's clearly possible to be able to memorize at the speed of speech (250 words per min). At the moment, I develop software. I decided to memorize the packages of the python standard library. Why? Is it going to help? It provides a link to attach concepts to. When I find a better solution than something in the standard library, I attach that memory to the standard library. Like when I think of argparse, I automaticaly think of clicklib and fire. Before coding I review the software development palace. I can hold it all in mind... because those packages have become one chunk in my mind. With all this training, my ability to visualize has just gone through the roof. At the end of the day, I can mentally re-watch my whole day and catch interesting, things that I missed in the moment. It feels like watching a vivid (albeit dreamy) movie. Anyways, like anything the deep end of this mind training is totally amazing and unlike the initial "lifehack" quick wins.

yawn 5y ago
Do you use the same memory palace for different "groups" of things to remember? If so, do you ever get items confused because they are at the same location in the palace?
- mrock 5y ago
  I've tried both approaches. Some palaces are one topic only. Others have been reused >5 times. With the reused palaces, with intention you can sequential recall just that topic. It's the same as having a party at your house. You don't confuse what happened at the party versus what happened when you were just cleaning your flat. With "random access" memory within a multi-use palaces, then, there is a little mixing. Sometimes you are thinking about a topic, the mind "goes" to the appropriate palace and then you recall maybe all the various unrelated topics, but your mind focuses on what matters. In the mixing, topics take a mythological feeling because the characters within them are involved in so many stories. Like fables or comic books. Augustine of Hippo (later Saint Augustine) from 354 AD: And I come to the fields and spacious palaces of my memory, where are the treasures of innumerable images, brought into it from things of all sorts perceived by the senses. … When I enter there, I require what I will to be brought forth, and something instantly comes; others must be longer sought after, which are fetched, as it were, out of some inner receptacle; others rush out in troops, and while one thing is desired and required, they start forth, as who should say, “Is it perchance I?” These I drive away with the hand of my heart, from the face of my remembrance; until what I wish for be unveiled, and appear in sight, out of its secret place. Other things come up readily, in unbroken order, as they are called for; those in front making way for the following; and as they make way, they are hidden from sight, ready to come when I will. All which takes place when I repeat a thing by heart.
coremoff 5y ago
so many questions :) > So I memorized books. Convert a book into 100-250 bullet points, memorize them in a memory palace do you have one palace per book? Many bullet points per location? Very big memory palaces? do you memorise as you read, or do you take notes and learn those? any guides that you found particularly useful?
- mrock 5y ago
  > do you have one palace per book? Yes. Some people chain together small locations that in aggregate serve as a large palace > Many bullet points per location? At first I used the "roman room method" which put 10 items per room. Later, I store "memories within the memories" which is like zooming into a single item that itself serves as a mini-palace. For example, maybe Mr Rogers is in a room. I can zoom into him and he could have something on his head, in his mouth, on each hand, etc and he could store an additional 10 ideas. > Very big memory palaces? They are places I've been like houses with 5-10 rooms. I tried using the British Museum because it has google street view. The key to memory is link ideas to what you already know well. >do you memorise as you read, or do you take notes and learn those? I've tried both. If it's a "concept book" then I read it once, take short short notes of only 3-5 bullet points per chapter, then memorize those at the end. With "course/class/do-it" books where you're learning by doing and spending a long time with the book, I paper clip a folded sheet of paper in the book and do it on the fly. > any guides that you found particularly useful? I'll share some below. One point to share is that this is a skill (like bike riding). So studying the method (at first) is almost useless. Just try it, learn by doing. Answer your own questions by doing the experiments yourself. Start with memorizing something you actually care about. You will totally suck at first, and rapidly improve. :) Links: https://mullenmemory.com/ https://mullenmemory.com/ https://www.youtube.com/user/punknellis14 https://www.youtube.com/user/punknellis14
  - coremoff 5y ago
    many thanks, that's really useful - I've been wanting/trying to sort out my memory for a while (I did use PAO for a while before it fell out of use, and I've used a small palace for trivial things like shopping lists), and this will really help, particularly: > Later, I store "memories within the memories" This is such a good idea - I had been thinking about many many different points in a single palace, which is a lot of work; this would make everything much more manageable. thanks again
Karawebnetwork 5y ago
Have you seen this? "Ancient Australian Aboriginal Memory Tool Superior to ‘Memory Palace’" https://neurosciencenews.com/aboriginal-memory-technique-18442/ https://neurosciencenews.com/aboriginal-memory-technique-184...
- mrock 5y ago
  Yes. There have been many follow up interviews with these researchers. It's an early "is this interesting" proof-of-concept study. But, they are getting funding for a study which should generate more reliable data.
- philipswood 5y ago
  Do you have a source with more detail on the actual technique? They are a bit sparse on details. It sounds like combining the spatial map with narrative stories, right?
  - mrock 5y ago
    If you want to learn more about indigenous memory techniques read: "Memory Craft" by Dr. Lynne Kelly and "Sand Talk" by one of the authors of the experiment in question.
    - philipswood 5y ago
      Thanks for the tip! Dr. Lynne Kelly also has a related book "The Memory Code". Reading that currently.
99_00 5y ago
How did you start training your memory? Is there one helpful book or website? Or did you just take the basics ideas and start applying them and get better with real world practice?
- mrock 5y ago
  I started by working through: "How to Develop a Brilliant Memory Week by Week: 50 Proven Ways to Enhance Your Memory Skills" by Dominic O'Brien. It's got 50 short doable activities. That's a great way to start. After that check out Lynne Kelly and Nelson Dellis
ai_ia 5y ago
I was into memory training after reading "Moonwalking with Einstein" (Excellent book btw). But it gets a bit cumbersome at some point. > I used to read a book, maybe take notes and hopefully take some new action. Next year it's gone, maybe I recall 3 ideas. How could I get more out of reading? So I memorized books. I built something that exactly solves this problem: 1. You read book or watch video lectures 2. 1 year later, you remember less than 5% I propose using a conversational learning system, that forces learners to respond. Their responses then act as "memory breadcrumbs" which helps to retrace the entire context. Think like your own chats on Whatsapp or FB. It's not a perfect system, but it works. You can read my comics-based blogpost on the same: https://primerlabs.io/comics/memory-breadcrumbs-comics/ https://primerlabs.io/comics/memory-breadcrumbs-comics/ And if you want to try out, I have released two free courses on Conversational Learning Platform: 1. Python 2. Fundamentals of Computing. You can try out https://primerlabs.io https://primerlabs.io (No signup is required) We create self-paced courses to teach yourself computer science and it's an excellent way to do that, IMO.
- mrock 5y ago
  Cool idea. I'd love to check it out just to see how your concept works.
paulpauper 5y ago
I wonder if this has more to do with IQ than the alleged efficacy of memory palaces IQ vs. ability does not scale linearly, so the difference between 100 an 140 IQ is not 40% greater performance but maybe many multiples for certain tasks.
- mrock 5y ago
  What is "this" that you're referring to?
philipswood 5y ago
This sounds awesome! Makes me want to have a look at memory palaces again. In your experience: Do you ever "refactor" you maps to show updated understanding? Or do you find that this happens naturally? Do connections between different areas stand out or form? Do you have examples of notices patterns or structure in knowledge because of it? Thanks
- mrock 5y ago
  > Do you ever "refactor" you maps to show updated understanding? Or do you find that this happens naturally? Yes. I often add on things. So let's say I read a book and years later I realize that the author omitted something very important (IMHO). Then, I just add that knowledge to the appropriate room. I naturally remember what was or wasn't part of the book. With these systems you're training your mind to think a specific sequence of thoughts (in the act of recalling the experience of your mind palace). With training even the recall becomes fast. However,... you can't easy delete (not after rehearsing something for years). It's about as easy to delete something as it is to change a bad habit. It's just easier to make new habits (or add new information). > Do connections between different areas stand out or form? This is one of the coolest things that happens. A kind of thinking becomes possible that isn't available without the "whole topic" loaded in mind. You can see broad expansive connections. One fun activity (that you can do right now with two decks of flash cards) is to compare and contrast different books. Mentally walk both of them simultaneously forwards and backwards. You'll see how the connect and differ. > Do you have examples of notices patterns or structure in knowledge because of it? Sure First with encoding... _where_ things occur in your memory palace is "free" information. So some people when learning foreign languages store different genders in different cities. Say you're trying to recall the gender of Boot (boat in German). You think, "where is that boot shaped like a boat?" instantly you know it's in a cafe in Williamsburg which is where you put all the "das" verbs making it "das Boot". You say you're encoding the periodic table, if you put all the columns in the same room, you know instantly that you could replace your Gallium doping with Indium in your Si wafer (in this toy example). If you want to learn the party trick of knowing which day of the week someone was born on. You can either get good at mental math and learn the equation and calculate it. Or, you can make a system of rooms in which you stick people who represent all the possible years to "cache" part of the calculation. Then the problem reduces to addition of small numbers.
theptip 5y ago
Thanks for sharing, I find this stuff quite inspiring. How much time would you say you spent on training over the years? (Hours/week when you were building this up, or whatever)
- mrock 5y ago
  Getting started phase: was 15 min a day. Over-hyped phase: for some memory "projects" maybe 30 min a day. Now: I just use memory tricks all day long without really training. However every day, for the last 30 min of work I try to recall everything that was important that day (free recall). At the start of the workday I recall the top-3 things to work on.

by mrock 5y ago

yawn 5y ago

Do you use the same memory palace for different "groups" of things to remember? If so, do you ever get items confused because they are at the same location in the palace?

mrock 5y ago
I've tried both approaches. Some palaces are one topic only. Others have been reused >5 times. With the reused palaces, with intention you can sequential recall just that topic. It's the same as having a party at your house. You don't confuse what happened at the party versus what happened when you were just cleaning your flat. With "random access" memory within a multi-use palaces, then, there is a little mixing. Sometimes you are thinking about a topic, the mind "goes" to the appropriate palace and then you recall maybe all the various unrelated topics, but your mind focuses on what matters. In the mixing, topics take a mythological feeling because the characters within them are involved in so many stories. Like fables or comic books. Augustine of Hippo (later Saint Augustine) from 354 AD: And I come to the fields and spacious palaces of my memory, where are the treasures of innumerable images, brought into it from things of all sorts perceived by the senses. … When I enter there, I require what I will to be brought forth, and something instantly comes; others must be longer sought after, which are fetched, as it were, out of some inner receptacle; others rush out in troops, and while one thing is desired and required, they start forth, as who should say, “Is it perchance I?” These I drive away with the hand of my heart, from the face of my remembrance; until what I wish for be unveiled, and appear in sight, out of its secret place. Other things come up readily, in unbroken order, as they are called for; those in front making way for the following; and as they make way, they are hidden from sight, ready to come when I will. All which takes place when I repeat a thing by heart.

coremoff 5y ago

so many questions :) > So I memorized books. Convert a book into 100-250 bullet points, memorize them in a memory palace do you have one palace per book? Many bullet points per location? Very big memory palaces? do you memorise as you read, or do you take notes and learn those? any guides that you found particularly useful?

mrock 5y ago
> do you have one palace per book? Yes. Some people chain together small locations that in aggregate serve as a large palace > Many bullet points per location? At first I used the "roman room method" which put 10 items per room. Later, I store "memories within the memories" which is like zooming into a single item that itself serves as a mini-palace. For example, maybe Mr Rogers is in a room. I can zoom into him and he could have something on his head, in his mouth, on each hand, etc and he could store an additional 10 ideas. > Very big memory palaces? They are places I've been like houses with 5-10 rooms. I tried using the British Museum because it has google street view. The key to memory is link ideas to what you already know well. >do you memorise as you read, or do you take notes and learn those? I've tried both. If it's a "concept book" then I read it once, take short short notes of only 3-5 bullet points per chapter, then memorize those at the end. With "course/class/do-it" books where you're learning by doing and spending a long time with the book, I paper clip a folded sheet of paper in the book and do it on the fly. > any guides that you found particularly useful? I'll share some below. One point to share is that this is a skill (like bike riding). So studying the method (at first) is almost useless. Just try it, learn by doing. Answer your own questions by doing the experiments yourself. Start with memorizing something you actually care about. You will totally suck at first, and rapidly improve. :) Links: https://mullenmemory.com/ https://mullenmemory.com/ https://www.youtube.com/user/punknellis14 https://www.youtube.com/user/punknellis14
- coremoff 5y ago
  many thanks, that's really useful - I've been wanting/trying to sort out my memory for a while (I did use PAO for a while before it fell out of use, and I've used a small palace for trivial things like shopping lists), and this will really help, particularly: > Later, I store "memories within the memories" This is such a good idea - I had been thinking about many many different points in a single palace, which is a lot of work; this would make everything much more manageable. thanks again

Karawebnetwork 5y ago

Have you seen this? "Ancient Australian Aboriginal Memory Tool Superior to ‘Memory Palace’" https://neurosciencenews.com/aboriginal-memory-technique-18442/ https://neurosciencenews.com/aboriginal-memory-technique-184...

mrock 5y ago
Yes. There have been many follow up interviews with these researchers. It's an early "is this interesting" proof-of-concept study. But, they are getting funding for a study which should generate more reliable data.
philipswood 5y ago
Do you have a source with more detail on the actual technique? They are a bit sparse on details. It sounds like combining the spatial map with narrative stories, right?
- mrock 5y ago
  If you want to learn more about indigenous memory techniques read: "Memory Craft" by Dr. Lynne Kelly and "Sand Talk" by one of the authors of the experiment in question.
  - philipswood 5y ago
    Thanks for the tip! Dr. Lynne Kelly also has a related book "The Memory Code". Reading that currently.

99_00 5y ago

How did you start training your memory? Is there one helpful book or website? Or did you just take the basics ideas and start applying them and get better with real world practice?

mrock 5y ago
I started by working through: "How to Develop a Brilliant Memory Week by Week: 50 Proven Ways to Enhance Your Memory Skills" by Dominic O'Brien. It's got 50 short doable activities. That's a great way to start. After that check out Lynne Kelly and Nelson Dellis

ai_ia 5y ago

I was into memory training after reading "Moonwalking with Einstein" (Excellent book btw). But it gets a bit cumbersome at some point. > I used to read a book, maybe take notes and hopefully take some new action. Next year it's gone, maybe I recall 3 ideas. How could I get more out of reading? So I memorized books. I built something that exactly solves this problem: 1. You read book or watch video lectures 2. 1 year later, you remember less than 5% I propose using a conversational learning system, that forces learners to respond. Their responses then act as "memory breadcrumbs" which helps to retrace the entire context. Think like your own chats on Whatsapp or FB. It's not a perfect system, but it works. You can read my comics-based blogpost on the same: https://primerlabs.io/comics/memory-breadcrumbs-comics/ https://primerlabs.io/comics/memory-breadcrumbs-comics/ And if you want to try out, I have released two free courses on Conversational Learning Platform: 1. Python 2. Fundamentals of Computing. You can try out https://primerlabs.io https://primerlabs.io (No signup is required) We create self-paced courses to teach yourself computer science and it's an excellent way to do that, IMO.

mrock 5y ago
Cool idea. I'd love to check it out just to see how your concept works.

paulpauper 5y ago

I wonder if this has more to do with IQ than the alleged efficacy of memory palaces IQ vs. ability does not scale linearly, so the difference between 100 an 140 IQ is not 40% greater performance but maybe many multiples for certain tasks.

mrock 5y ago
What is "this" that you're referring to?

philipswood 5y ago

This sounds awesome! Makes me want to have a look at memory palaces again. In your experience: Do you ever "refactor" you maps to show updated understanding? Or do you find that this happens naturally? Do connections between different areas stand out or form? Do you have examples of notices patterns or structure in knowledge because of it? Thanks

mrock 5y ago
> Do you ever "refactor" you maps to show updated understanding? Or do you find that this happens naturally? Yes. I often add on things. So let's say I read a book and years later I realize that the author omitted something very important (IMHO). Then, I just add that knowledge to the appropriate room. I naturally remember what was or wasn't part of the book. With these systems you're training your mind to think a specific sequence of thoughts (in the act of recalling the experience of your mind palace). With training even the recall becomes fast. However,... you can't easy delete (not after rehearsing something for years). It's about as easy to delete something as it is to change a bad habit. It's just easier to make new habits (or add new information). > Do connections between different areas stand out or form? This is one of the coolest things that happens. A kind of thinking becomes possible that isn't available without the "whole topic" loaded in mind. You can see broad expansive connections. One fun activity (that you can do right now with two decks of flash cards) is to compare and contrast different books. Mentally walk both of them simultaneously forwards and backwards. You'll see how the connect and differ. > Do you have examples of notices patterns or structure in knowledge because of it? Sure First with encoding... _where_ things occur in your memory palace is "free" information. So some people when learning foreign languages store different genders in different cities. Say you're trying to recall the gender of Boot (boat in German). You think, "where is that boot shaped like a boat?" instantly you know it's in a cafe in Williamsburg which is where you put all the "das" verbs making it "das Boot". You say you're encoding the periodic table, if you put all the columns in the same room, you know instantly that you could replace your Gallium doping with Indium in your Si wafer (in this toy example). If you want to learn the party trick of knowing which day of the week someone was born on. You can either get good at mental math and learn the equation and calculate it. Or, you can make a system of rooms in which you stick people who represent all the possible years to "cache" part of the calculation. Then the problem reduces to addition of small numbers.

theptip 5y ago

Thanks for sharing, I find this stuff quite inspiring. How much time would you say you spent on training over the years? (Hours/week when you were building this up, or whatever)

mrock 5y ago
Getting started phase: was 15 min a day. Over-hyped phase: for some memory "projects" maybe 30 min a day. Now: I just use memory tricks all day long without really training. However every day, for the last 30 min of work I try to recall everything that was important that day (free recall). At the start of the workday I recall the top-3 things to work on.