3 ms·

At least we don't have to see ads.

swiley 5y ago
I’ll take good faith bugs and missing features over the pathological psycho warfare in closed software any day of the week.
- andrepd 5y ago
  I think that the point here is that this is anything but a "good faith bug".
  - gnomewascool 5y ago
    GNOME's attitude isn't caused by them seeking to monetise their software or invigilate their users (e.g. "we say that we're not adding/changing this feature because X, but _really_ we're not doing so because it would prevent us from displaying ads/addicting our users"), but because they have a certain vision that they're stubbornly sticking to, so yes, it is a "good faith bug".
  - BrightGlow 5y ago
    How is that the point? GNOME is an understaffed and underfunded project.
    - _dain_ 5y ago
      Well why doesn't the GNOME project offer a way for people to pay for specific features and bugfixes? I would contribute money if I knew it would go towards paying someone to fix the file-chooser dialog. So would a lot of other people, if there was an announcement. I know for a fact I am not the only person who would do this: https://jayfax.neocities.org/mediocrity/gnome-has-no-thumbnails-in-the-file-picker.html https://jayfax.neocities.org/mediocrity/gnome-has-no-thumbna... > One may say, "quit complaining, the GNOME developers are doing for free!" Okay. Well, how much money should I pay for someone to fix this then? I’m legit offering a bounty here. Conditions are that this fix makes it into the master branch.
      - BrightGlow 5y ago
        In my opinion, that article is pretty insubstantial and is mostly just responding to the same 4chan trolling mentioned in this wiki. It's just not a productive line of discussion and doesn't make any sense in the actual context of how open source works. But I'll answer your question anyway. I think there are a few GNOME developers that have patreons or some other crowdfunding/bounty thing but it's not a major source of income for most. Getting $2 a month from a handful of people is not enough to fund a developer for any serious work. If you want to fund someone for real then you should probably pay a real developer salary which would be at least $75k-$100k a year in the US, and more if you want them to have competitive benefits. The price could be different in other countries. You might be able to hire one of the Linux consultancies to do it for the equivalent hourly rate. This is of course if you work for a company that can afford that. If you're a normal non-rich person then you're probably out of luck here, sorry. Software is expensive. I also would be wary of anyone who guarantees they can get something into the master branch. To me that's scammer talk. Getting patches merged is an ongoing conversation between the developers and maintainers, you don't want someone who's just pushing code through without any checks. And if they're saying they can get something through before any code is even written and before anyone even knows if the solution is viable or not, then I would view that with extreme skepticism. If it's a major feature then it may end up taking months or years for it to get reviewed and merged, or it may just sit around for years and not get merged at all because it causes issues in some other part of the code, or it could end up being obsoleted by something else before then, or it could just end up being low priority and nobody gets around to it... or any number of other things really. Hopefully that clears up some of those bizarre statements that are in that article.
        _dain_ 5y ago
        >In my opinion, that article is pretty insubstantial and is mostly just responding to the same 4chan trolling mentioned in this wiki. It's just not a productive line of discussion and doesn't make any sense in the actual context of how open source works. How on Earth is it "trolling"? Seriously, I want you to explain to me how that article is bad-faith in any way. Yes, it's written in a absurd, ironic way -- that's because the situation it's describing is absurd. When such a massive, obvious usability flaw has gone unfixed for so long, people have the perfect right to joke about it and make fun of GNOME. Sorry if you think that's unfair trolling -- it isn't. And lol at the goalpost moving >gnome is underfunded >okay, how much money to fix the file chooser >oh well uhh that's now how it works and you couldn't afford it anyway
- 29athrowaway 5y ago
  There is cool program for people like you, it is called Bonzibuddy. Proprietary software is guaranteed to be ethical and respectful of your privacy. In part, because the opaqueness creates an incentive for people to write better, more secure software. I would also much rather consume software made by people that spend 99% of their time waiting for the weekend, than from people that write software out of self-motivation and enjoyment.
dublin 5y ago
I have never seen an ad in Windows, period. (And for that matter, I've never changed any setting to achieve that. Perhaps this is because as a Surface user, I get Win10 Pro installed by default?) By the way, try using a pen or touch as a meaningfully usable interface on Linux (or Mac)... I'll never buy another computer that doesn't support both rich pen and touch - THAT'S a UI improvement that has changed my life, and made me swear off ALL keyboard-and-mouse-only desktops and laptops forever. (I still use KB/mouse when docked or using type cover, of course, but why would I ever want to limit myself to those?) BTW - I'll probably also never own another computer that's not dockable - the ability to pull the computer out and have your entire working state just go with you in less than a second is incredibly valuable, as is the ability to dock again when you arrive at one of your desks. My only real complaint about the Surface is that battery replacement is really only practical as a device swap - and Li batteries don't last long enough to use the PC until its technically obsolete. (I'll upgrade to the new SP8, but I'm still running an SP4, which is my third due to two previous battery bloatings since 2014.)
- Cloudef 5y ago
  Steam Deck is for you perhaps
- xfer 5y ago
  > try using a pen or touch as a meaningfully usable interface Have you tried doing that on windows? No a pen is not supposed to be used for scrolling on a pc, it's not a smartphone: https://github.com/TheJoeFin/Windows10-Community/issues/17 https://github.com/TheJoeFin/Windows10-Community/issues/17 I have seen windows ads on pro/enterprise on the lock screen even.
  - skinkestek 5y ago
    Yeah, they had ads for a mmo game or something on the lock screen of my Professional licensed machine and always ads for Candy Crush in the menu as well as trying to finally outcompete Google in scammy pushing of browser for the first time in a decade.
- jeroenhd 5y ago

I’ll take good faith bugs and missing features over the pathological psycho warfare in closed software any day of the week.

andrepd 5y ago
I think that the point here is that this is anything but a "good faith bug".
- gnomewascool 5y ago
  GNOME's attitude isn't caused by them seeking to monetise their software or invigilate their users (e.g. "we say that we're not adding/changing this feature because X, but _really_ we're not doing so because it would prevent us from displaying ads/addicting our users"), but because they have a certain vision that they're stubbornly sticking to, so yes, it is a "good faith bug".
- BrightGlow 5y ago
  How is that the point? GNOME is an understaffed and underfunded project.
  - _dain_ 5y ago
    Well why doesn't the GNOME project offer a way for people to pay for specific features and bugfixes? I would contribute money if I knew it would go towards paying someone to fix the file-chooser dialog. So would a lot of other people, if there was an announcement. I know for a fact I am not the only person who would do this: https://jayfax.neocities.org/mediocrity/gnome-has-no-thumbnails-in-the-file-picker.html https://jayfax.neocities.org/mediocrity/gnome-has-no-thumbna... > One may say, "quit complaining, the GNOME developers are doing for free!" Okay. Well, how much money should I pay for someone to fix this then? I’m legit offering a bounty here. Conditions are that this fix makes it into the master branch.
    - BrightGlow 5y ago
      In my opinion, that article is pretty insubstantial and is mostly just responding to the same 4chan trolling mentioned in this wiki. It's just not a productive line of discussion and doesn't make any sense in the actual context of how open source works. But I'll answer your question anyway. I think there are a few GNOME developers that have patreons or some other crowdfunding/bounty thing but it's not a major source of income for most. Getting $2 a month from a handful of people is not enough to fund a developer for any serious work. If you want to fund someone for real then you should probably pay a real developer salary which would be at least $75k-$100k a year in the US, and more if you want them to have competitive benefits. The price could be different in other countries. You might be able to hire one of the Linux consultancies to do it for the equivalent hourly rate. This is of course if you work for a company that can afford that. If you're a normal non-rich person then you're probably out of luck here, sorry. Software is expensive. I also would be wary of anyone who guarantees they can get something into the master branch. To me that's scammer talk. Getting patches merged is an ongoing conversation between the developers and maintainers, you don't want someone who's just pushing code through without any checks. And if they're saying they can get something through before any code is even written and before anyone even knows if the solution is viable or not, then I would view that with extreme skepticism. If it's a major feature then it may end up taking months or years for it to get reviewed and merged, or it may just sit around for years and not get merged at all because it causes issues in some other part of the code, or it could end up being obsoleted by something else before then, or it could just end up being low priority and nobody gets around to it... or any number of other things really. Hopefully that clears up some of those bizarre statements that are in that article.
      - _dain_ 5y ago
        >In my opinion, that article is pretty insubstantial and is mostly just responding to the same 4chan trolling mentioned in this wiki. It's just not a productive line of discussion and doesn't make any sense in the actual context of how open source works. How on Earth is it "trolling"? Seriously, I want you to explain to me how that article is bad-faith in any way. Yes, it's written in a absurd, ironic way -- that's because the situation it's describing is absurd. When such a massive, obvious usability flaw has gone unfixed for so long, people have the perfect right to joke about it and make fun of GNOME. Sorry if you think that's unfair trolling -- it isn't. And lol at the goalpost moving >gnome is underfunded >okay, how much money to fix the file chooser >oh well uhh that's now how it works and you couldn't afford it anyway
29athrowaway 5y ago
There is cool program for people like you, it is called Bonzibuddy. Proprietary software is guaranteed to be ethical and respectful of your privacy. In part, because the opaqueness creates an incentive for people to write better, more secure software. I would also much rather consume software made by people that spend 99% of their time waiting for the weekend, than from people that write software out of self-motivation and enjoyment.

dublin 5y ago

I have never seen an ad in Windows, period. (And for that matter, I've never changed any setting to achieve that. Perhaps this is because as a Surface user, I get Win10 Pro installed by default?) By the way, try using a pen or touch as a meaningfully usable interface on Linux (or Mac)... I'll never buy another computer that doesn't support both rich pen and touch - THAT'S a UI improvement that has changed my life, and made me swear off ALL keyboard-and-mouse-only desktops and laptops forever. (I still use KB/mouse when docked or using type cover, of course, but why would I ever want to limit myself to those?) BTW - I'll probably also never own another computer that's not dockable - the ability to pull the computer out and have your entire working state just go with you in less than a second is incredibly valuable, as is the ability to dock again when you arrive at one of your desks. My only real complaint about the Surface is that battery replacement is really only practical as a device swap - and Li batteries don't last long enough to use the PC until its technically obsolete. (I'll upgrade to the new SP8, but I'm still running an SP4, which is my third due to two previous battery bloatings since 2014.)

Cloudef 5y ago
Steam Deck is for you perhaps
xfer 5y ago
> try using a pen or touch as a meaningfully usable interface Have you tried doing that on windows? No a pen is not supposed to be used for scrolling on a pc, it's not a smartphone: https://github.com/TheJoeFin/Windows10-Community/issues/17 https://github.com/TheJoeFin/Windows10-Community/issues/17 I have seen windows ads on pro/enterprise on the lock screen even.
- skinkestek 5y ago
  Yeah, they had ads for a mmo game or something on the lock screen of my Professional licensed machine and always ads for Candy Crush in the menu as well as trying to finally outcompete Google in scammy pushing of browser for the first time in a decade.
jeroenhd 5y ago