5 ms·

You mean at some point NFT had you?

by xwdv 5y ago

marban 5y ago
Well, I found it to be a decent solution to support actual artists (esp. Photographers or folks like eBoy fame) who were already selling their digital art in genuine and honest capacity. But when some random guy without a story renders a thousand animated dogs from a script and the actual art is how to push it via Reddit bots, my support for artistic value creation has reached its limit.
- tiborsaas 5y ago
  I don't get this. The concept hasn't changed since and those genuine artists are still there you supported. Or things are only cool until they are not mainstream?
  - wpietri 5y ago
    I think the NFT thing is kinda ridiculous. But then so are plenty of other marketing shenanigans. Maybe it could have worked? But once it was picked up by the grift/hype/fincrime machine that has eaten cryptocurrencies, it lost all semblance of plausibility to me. It has gone from something like "I bought a small piece of a creator whose work I treasure" to "ZOMG MAKE MONEY FAST". As an example, take the guy who was big on what he calls investing and I call gambling, who proposed to his girlfriend with an NFT: https://twitter.com/redditships/status/1432396694608662536?lang=en https://twitter.com/redditships/status/1432396694608662536?l... For me it's the same deal with cryptocurrencies in general. Interesting idea, and I want to visit the alternate reality where it was developed gradually and sanely by the sort of curious, well-meaning person that got into it early on. But the sort of value-based innovation I care about got stomped long ago.
  - II2II 5y ago
    My interpretation of what they were saying: NFTs are a worthy means of supporting artists but have been tainted by the other breed of artist (the scam artist). I would extend that by suggesting that NFTs should be a valid means of supporting new artists. The problem arises when people dump garbage into the market to make a quick buck. This will ultimately diminish the long term value of NFTs, meaning there is less value for those who are trying to make a living from their art (and even for those who are trying to make a living investing in art).
- saalweachter 5y ago
  Honestly I don't think NFTs - as it exists - was ever a good model. I know there's a hypothetical resale mechanism, but it's fundamentally operating on a lottery system - artists are buying a ticket hoping to hit it big, and that favors a self-destructive mentality. A Patreon-like system still has an element of luck, but the steady monthly income makes it much easier for an artist to say "this is working, I should keep going" or "I guess I should start looking for a/keep my day job".
  - nerdponx 5y ago
    It wasn't ever meant to be a lottery. It was and remains just a way to sell ownership rights to stuff without physically transferring any stuff. The fact that a speculation market bloomed around it was just a weird circumstance.
    - im_down_w_otp 5y ago
      Weird circumstance? It seems like an entirely predictable outcome, and as such it seems like it may very well have been the actual point. Especially since NFTs confer no actual assets or rights in anyway that matters EXCEPT for in an adjacent speculative market.
- pibechorro 5y ago
  I am an artist. Have shown in galleries, museums and rubbed shoulders with all sorts of dealers etc in Manhattan art world. What you see in the nft space is pretty normal.. for every genuine, talented artist there are 1000 copy cats just gaming the market trends. For every genuine, professional art seller/buyer there are 1000 used car salesmen looking to flip hype and bad taste for quick profit, screw over naive and poor artist and the big elephant in the room, money laundering. The recent Met gala.. socialites and wealth parading the halls hanging Caravaggio and Van Gogh, who died destetute.
  - analog31 5y ago
    What's lacking is an agreed upon mechanism for distinguishing the real artists from the hacks, and the real buyers from the flippers.
    - ipaddr 5y ago
      Real art is what you agree in your mind is real art. If you are trying to find something to filter out art that will not skyrocket in prices that's different. You need to find out what people are buying and only buy those. Each subgroup will be buying different types of art so research is required. Anything is real art. A rock you brought in or a painting made by a computer. As long as you see it as art, special and perhaps get an emotion from it.
      - marban 5y ago
        "Art is what you can get away with", to quote Andy Warhol.
fullshark 5y ago
I was pretty torn about crypto, I saw most of what this essay describes but I also did find it as a potential global currency / computer system outside gov't control that could enable more as a result. BTC v. $ has been discussed to death but the BTC case isn't COMPLETE nonsense imo, in a world where trillions are generated out of thin air to prevent debt defaults and everyone supports it. However once NFTs became a thing and the crypto whales started pimping it I saw the truth. These people have no vision beyond finding some story to get someone else to pay more for their crypto tokens down the line, full stop.

You mean at some point NFT had you?

by xwdv 5y ago

You mean at some point NFT had you?

Well, I found it to be a decent solution to support actual artists (esp. Photographers or folks like eBoy fame) who were already selling their digital art in genuine and honest capacity. But when some random guy without a story renders a thousand animated dogs from a script and the actual art is how to push it via Reddit bots, my support for artistic value creation has reached its limit.

tiborsaas 5y ago
I don't get this. The concept hasn't changed since and those genuine artists are still there you supported. Or things are only cool until they are not mainstream?
- wpietri 5y ago
  I think the NFT thing is kinda ridiculous. But then so are plenty of other marketing shenanigans. Maybe it could have worked? But once it was picked up by the grift/hype/fincrime machine that has eaten cryptocurrencies, it lost all semblance of plausibility to me. It has gone from something like "I bought a small piece of a creator whose work I treasure" to "ZOMG MAKE MONEY FAST". As an example, take the guy who was big on what he calls investing and I call gambling, who proposed to his girlfriend with an NFT: https://twitter.com/redditships/status/1432396694608662536?lang=en https://twitter.com/redditships/status/1432396694608662536?l... For me it's the same deal with cryptocurrencies in general. Interesting idea, and I want to visit the alternate reality where it was developed gradually and sanely by the sort of curious, well-meaning person that got into it early on. But the sort of value-based innovation I care about got stomped long ago.
- II2II 5y ago
  My interpretation of what they were saying: NFTs are a worthy means of supporting artists but have been tainted by the other breed of artist (the scam artist). I would extend that by suggesting that NFTs should be a valid means of supporting new artists. The problem arises when people dump garbage into the market to make a quick buck. This will ultimately diminish the long term value of NFTs, meaning there is less value for those who are trying to make a living from their art (and even for those who are trying to make a living investing in art).
saalweachter 5y ago
Honestly I don't think NFTs - as it exists - was ever a good model. I know there's a hypothetical resale mechanism, but it's fundamentally operating on a lottery system - artists are buying a ticket hoping to hit it big, and that favors a self-destructive mentality. A Patreon-like system still has an element of luck, but the steady monthly income makes it much easier for an artist to say "this is working, I should keep going" or "I guess I should start looking for a/keep my day job".
- nerdponx 5y ago
  It wasn't ever meant to be a lottery. It was and remains just a way to sell ownership rights to stuff without physically transferring any stuff. The fact that a speculation market bloomed around it was just a weird circumstance.
  - im_down_w_otp 5y ago
    Weird circumstance? It seems like an entirely predictable outcome, and as such it seems like it may very well have been the actual point. Especially since NFTs confer no actual assets or rights in anyway that matters EXCEPT for in an adjacent speculative market.
pibechorro 5y ago
I am an artist. Have shown in galleries, museums and rubbed shoulders with all sorts of dealers etc in Manhattan art world. What you see in the nft space is pretty normal.. for every genuine, talented artist there are 1000 copy cats just gaming the market trends. For every genuine, professional art seller/buyer there are 1000 used car salesmen looking to flip hype and bad taste for quick profit, screw over naive and poor artist and the big elephant in the room, money laundering. The recent Met gala.. socialites and wealth parading the halls hanging Caravaggio and Van Gogh, who died destetute.
- analog31 5y ago
  What's lacking is an agreed upon mechanism for distinguishing the real artists from the hacks, and the real buyers from the flippers.
  - ipaddr 5y ago
    Real art is what you agree in your mind is real art. If you are trying to find something to filter out art that will not skyrocket in prices that's different. You need to find out what people are buying and only buy those. Each subgroup will be buying different types of art so research is required. Anything is real art. A rock you brought in or a painting made by a computer. As long as you see it as art, special and perhaps get an emotion from it.
    - marban 5y ago
      "Art is what you can get away with", to quote Andy Warhol.

fullshark 5y ago

I was pretty torn about crypto, I saw most of what this essay describes but I also did find it as a potential global currency / computer system outside gov't control that could enable more as a result. BTC v. $ has been discussed to death but the BTC case isn't COMPLETE nonsense imo, in a world where trillions are generated out of thin air to prevent debt defaults and everyone supports it. However once NFTs became a thing and the crypto whales started pimping it I saw the truth. These people have no vision beyond finding some story to get someone else to pay more for their crypto tokens down the line, full stop.