4 ms·

Until we understand and push through a system (whether law or practice) that makes harming others, especially against their will and intentionally, far more cos

Until we understand and push through a system (whether law or practice) that makes harming others, especially against their will and intentionally, far more costly than the massive returns and profits they today produce, NONE of these kinds of behaviors will ever cease. The examples are numerous; * Violation of human right to privacy and property * Violation of human right to not being tracked * Illegitimate wars * Pollution * Drugs (legal and illegal * Government incompetence * Siphoning off potential and sabotaging developing countries through human resource poaching called "immigration" * The fed fraud * Government theft and fractional enslavement through taxation * More fraud through inflation * Yet more fraud trough money "printing" * And for emphasis; being "secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures" (and no, that does not only apply to the government) ...and probably many more that I am forgetting are all immensely profitable activities that damage and destroy and defraud large numbers of people while providing immense profits and benefits to a very small set of people who are also the most powerful. You may disagree with what I have to say, but fundamentally regardless of which set of things you do and don't support all have an underlying mechanic that they defraud everyone while immensely profiting a parasitic ruling class, and that applies to both the things you think are good (e.g., immigration) or bad (e.g., wars). The parasitic ruling class has us squabbling over meaningless crumbs while they are bursting from picking our pockets and exploiting us as they always have, even if their con and lies have changed over time.

sul_tasto 5y ago
I’m convinced that the modern role of US political parties is to simply keep the masses squabbling. I wish we could get rid of gerrymandering and the two party dominance.
- wslack 5y ago
  Unfortunately, the Supreme Court decided 5-4 that the courts should have no power here, so its up to state legislatures. (https://www.npr.org/2019/06/27/731847977/supreme-court-rules-partisan-gerrymandering-is-beyond-the-reach-of-federal-court https://www.npr.org/2019/06/27/731847977/supreme-court-rules...)
- Revercomb 5y ago
  Totally agree here. It has to be intentional at this point.
  - smolder 5y ago
    Yes. Hyperpartisanship is the way to maintain minority control of an ostensibly majority-controlled system. Both parties feign gridlock over popular policy but cooperate on what their owners want. Populist support for policies doesn't matter when people are kept divided along party lines. "Radical" nonconformists who aim to do what voters want can always be defeated from within their party if not by the other side.
AuthorizedCust 5y ago
You’re getting into implied relative privation here. Yes, bad things exist, and yes, they aren’t controlled in a way we’d like. That doesn’t excuse Apple and isn’t that relevant to an argument about Apple’s immediate responsibility for its errors.
mr_overalls 5y ago
> Siphoning off potential and sabotaging developing countries through human resource poaching called "immigration" You think immigration should be illegal? > Government theft and fractional enslavement through taxation You really had me in agreement with the first few items. You are not a serious person.
- maerF0x0 5y ago
  I'm going to guess that they're referring to only allowing "cream of the crop" immigration. (eg H1B or other visas often are only open to top candidates, not everyone)
  - M277 5y ago
    The problem with the argument that this is crippling developing countries is that it's often the case that the top talent can't really shine in their country. They can't realize their potential, either due to the lack of means or corruption or envy or whatever. I am from a third world country and a large part of our scientists did great things because they immigrated, at the same time, there are many great minds here that to do anything at all have to partake in an endless uphill battle. Like, I'd totally love to have our top engineers and scientists come from the West and do some amazing things here (they 100% can make a great change), but I feel that they actually just can't.
    - maerF0x0 5y ago
      Also it ignores, as i've observed with Filipinos in Canada, that they often send like half of their paycheck back "home" . Some of them live in developed world "squalor" (like many people to a house, or taking the bus) so their families can live like royalty in a low CoL area.
    - frankfrankfrank 5y ago
      I get your point and have considered it myself. It is a big problem, but it is also a function of the rather rapaciousness of the US economic/immigration system and model itself. NOTHING would stop the US government to fund the opportunities in whatever country in question, but also, there is no reason why "immigration" could not be a kind of skill building/sharing and development plan where you are given the opportunity to go to the USA for a set number of years and/or cycles, and then you know you are going to transition back to your home country where you will then use those skills/knowledge to help and build your country. It is actually extremely inefficient the way the rapacious American system in particular works (but also Canada and increasingly the overall EU). There is far more utility to be gained from making exponential strides and advances by the "human resources" as they are even referred to, by uplifting and developing their home country than to serve the US ruling class in ever more desperate search for "growth". And then of course there is also the fact that immigration is short sighted and a pure measure of the incompetence and failure of government. If you are importing people, you have failed to adequately govern to meet your needs and it also will make you reliant on that immigration while you will ignore even building up any kind of domestic capacity. Then there is of course the consequence of immigration dependence coupled with international development and growth too when the source of "immigrants" dries up because people will want to life in their home countries where they can be among their own and development has narrowed the difference between comfort levels in the USA. We will be seeing this effect increasingly in the near future as, e.g., Indians see no reason anymore to move to the USA because the US university is not even as good as a local university, let alone American society is crumbling and cracking at all seams. It will be compounding effect. I already see it happening.
dang 5y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28640879 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28640879.

sul_tasto 5y ago

I’m convinced that the modern role of US political parties is to simply keep the masses squabbling. I wish we could get rid of gerrymandering and the two party dominance.

wslack 5y ago
Unfortunately, the Supreme Court decided 5-4 that the courts should have no power here, so its up to state legislatures. (https://www.npr.org/2019/06/27/731847977/supreme-court-rules-partisan-gerrymandering-is-beyond-the-reach-of-federal-court https://www.npr.org/2019/06/27/731847977/supreme-court-rules...)
Revercomb 5y ago
Totally agree here. It has to be intentional at this point.
- smolder 5y ago
  Yes. Hyperpartisanship is the way to maintain minority control of an ostensibly majority-controlled system. Both parties feign gridlock over popular policy but cooperate on what their owners want. Populist support for policies doesn't matter when people are kept divided along party lines. "Radical" nonconformists who aim to do what voters want can always be defeated from within their party if not by the other side.

AuthorizedCust 5y ago

You’re getting into implied relative privation here. Yes, bad things exist, and yes, they aren’t controlled in a way we’d like. That doesn’t excuse Apple and isn’t that relevant to an argument about Apple’s immediate responsibility for its errors.

mr_overalls 5y ago

> Siphoning off potential and sabotaging developing countries through human resource poaching called "immigration" You think immigration should be illegal? > Government theft and fractional enslavement through taxation You really had me in agreement with the first few items. You are not a serious person.

maerF0x0 5y ago
I'm going to guess that they're referring to only allowing "cream of the crop" immigration. (eg H1B or other visas often are only open to top candidates, not everyone)
- M277 5y ago
  The problem with the argument that this is crippling developing countries is that it's often the case that the top talent can't really shine in their country. They can't realize their potential, either due to the lack of means or corruption or envy or whatever. I am from a third world country and a large part of our scientists did great things because they immigrated, at the same time, there are many great minds here that to do anything at all have to partake in an endless uphill battle. Like, I'd totally love to have our top engineers and scientists come from the West and do some amazing things here (they 100% can make a great change), but I feel that they actually just can't.
  - maerF0x0 5y ago
    Also it ignores, as i've observed with Filipinos in Canada, that they often send like half of their paycheck back "home" . Some of them live in developed world "squalor" (like many people to a house, or taking the bus) so their families can live like royalty in a low CoL area.
  - frankfrankfrank 5y ago
    I get your point and have considered it myself. It is a big problem, but it is also a function of the rather rapaciousness of the US economic/immigration system and model itself. NOTHING would stop the US government to fund the opportunities in whatever country in question, but also, there is no reason why "immigration" could not be a kind of skill building/sharing and development plan where you are given the opportunity to go to the USA for a set number of years and/or cycles, and then you know you are going to transition back to your home country where you will then use those skills/knowledge to help and build your country. It is actually extremely inefficient the way the rapacious American system in particular works (but also Canada and increasingly the overall EU). There is far more utility to be gained from making exponential strides and advances by the "human resources" as they are even referred to, by uplifting and developing their home country than to serve the US ruling class in ever more desperate search for "growth". And then of course there is also the fact that immigration is short sighted and a pure measure of the incompetence and failure of government. If you are importing people, you have failed to adequately govern to meet your needs and it also will make you reliant on that immigration while you will ignore even building up any kind of domestic capacity. Then there is of course the consequence of immigration dependence coupled with international development and growth too when the source of "immigrants" dries up because people will want to life in their home countries where they can be among their own and development has narrowed the difference between comfort levels in the USA. We will be seeing this effect increasingly in the near future as, e.g., Indians see no reason anymore to move to the USA because the US university is not even as good as a local university, let alone American society is crumbling and cracking at all seams. It will be compounding effect. I already see it happening.

dang 5y ago

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28640879 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28640879.