5 ms·

Why These Children Fell into Endless Sleep

29 points by dnetesn 5y ago

drekipus 5y ago
As a soon-to-be father I get a little worried when I read things like this. Is there some new mental condition? Is it plastic in the water? Is it an inescapable risk? Surely, playing with the child, rubbing feet, tickling, rough-and-tumble play, throughout their childhood would all help against such a thing. Tried and true methods from ages ago. It even says in the article that the child is awake, so I don't see why you couldn't spook or tickle them into action. Is this just "new age diagnosis" that I have to wade through? (Not being facetious)
- nichohel 5y ago
  As a father also, I want to reassure you that you have no cause for concern: this condition only occurs in very small populations that are at risk of deportation from liberal western countries.
- Maursault 5y ago
  > It even says in the article that the child is awake, so I don't see why you couldn't spook or tickle them into action. I was expecting the neurologist to perform a drop test [1], but the closest to this in the article is: > [Dr. Olssen] lifted Nola’s arm to show me how limp it was. The arm dropped unceremoniously onto the bed when let go. Could this be a failed drop test? Also see: Asylum seekers with apathetic refugee children [2] [1] https://www.aafp.org/afp/1998/0515/p2485.html https://www.aafp.org/afp/1998/0515/p2485.html A few bedside tests are often helpful in patients with suspected pseudoneurologic syndrome. The first is a drop test: the clinician drops the “paralyzed” arm over the patient's face. In pseudoneurologic syndrome, the “paralyzed” arm will not strike the patient's face when dropped (i.e., a near miss). Second, the clinician can test weakness with painful stimulation. Unexpected painful stimuli to the affected extremity may cause a purposeful withdrawal response. [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asylum_seekers_with_apathetic_refugee_children https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asylum_seekers_with_apathetic_...
EarlKing 5y ago
I'll save you a click: It never explains why.
- ajsnigrutin 5y ago
  Thanks... i started reading, it read like a novel, talking about everything but the stuff i wanted to know, and yeah... I stopped reading.
- SimeVidas 5y ago
  Wikipedia to the rescue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resignation_syndrome#Causes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resignation_syndrome#Causes
- MrPatan 5y ago
  I came away from the article with a pretty good idea why.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
nichohel 5y ago
My impression, after viewing the documentary "Life Overtakes Me" some time ago, is that the answer to this question is: to avoid deportation by feigning mental illness.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- pnathan 5y ago
  There are also allegations that the parents malnourish via the NG tube to ensure they don't get deported. What is most interesting is that it only seems to happen in Sweden, and to specific cultural groups.
  - nichohel 5y ago
    The disease seems to be contagious--socially contagious. By this I mean that once it is realized that having a child lie motionless in bed is an effective way to block deportation proceedings, thanks to the extremely accommodating Swedish immigrant/refugee medical and social support apparatus, others in similar situations try it too. I don't want to diminish the very significant hardships many of these immigrant/refugees are under. If telling my child to just lie still in bed, when the social worker comes by, allows my family to stay in Sweden instead of being sent back to Syria, I would probably do it too. If it was a requirement for a NG feeding tube to be placed in the child, even that might be an unpleasant but ultimately worthwhile sacrifice. Resignation Syndrome seems to reliably and rapidly abate once the threat of deportation is removed. Is that because a massive stressor is removed and mental health can be regained? Or is it because a pretense can be lifted once the threat of deportation is removed?
    - candiodari 5y ago
      > Resignation Syndrome seems to reliably and rapidly abate once the threat of deportation is removed. Is that because a massive stressor is removed and mental health can be regained? Or is it because a pretense can be lifted once the threat of deportation is removed? I wonder why people think that there is must be a hard cutoff between these 2. You can create a very temporary OCD with "trauma" in video games. That's entirely fictional and voluntarily (literally done for fun) and yet you can clearly see the effects for a few hours after the video game session stops. It lasts longer when repeated. So here's a theory: there's a long, very slow sloping grey zone between definite OCD and entirely faked and a million gradations between the two. The longer the faking lasts the more real it becomes.
lettergram 5y ago
To me, this sounds like a fake story, almost propaganda. If it’s real, there’s something strange going on > The Times report, citing Swedish psychologist, says the children “usually woke up” after their families were granted residency, although not overnight. https://nypost.com/2021/03/31/mystery-of-sleeping-refugee-children-who-shut-down-in-coma-like-state/ https://nypost.com/2021/03/31/mystery-of-sleeping-refugee-ch... From wikipedia: > More recently, this phenomenon has been called into question, with two children witnessing that they were forced by their parents to act apathetic in order to increase chances of being granted residence permits.[3][4] As evidenced by medical records, healthcare professionals were aware of this scam, and witnessed parents who actively refused aid for their children but remained silent at the time. Later Sveriges Television, Sweden's national public television broadcaster, were severely critiqued by investigative journalist Janne Josefsson for failing to uncover the truth.[5] In March 2020, a report citing the Swedish Agency for Medical and Social Evaluation, SBU, said "There are no scientific studies that answer how to diagnose abandonment syndrome, nor what treatment works." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resignation_syndrome https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resignation_syndrome
- irthomasthomas 5y ago
  This is an episode of Arrested Development. https://arresteddevelopment.fandom.com/wiki/Fakin%27_It https://arresteddevelopment.fandom.com/wiki/Fakin%27_It "At the hospital, Lucille mentioned that she hoped Buster would coincidentally stay in a coma throughout the trial. Michael asked Lucille if she was responsible for this, but in fact, Buster got into G.O.B.'s forget-me-now pills."
fallingknife 5y ago
Supposedly lying down without any activity for over a year but no signs of muscle atrophy. Actively resists when doctor tries to open eyes. Jaw muscles actively clenched shut. Obvious motive to lie. Maybe there is more medical evidence, but from what the article says it sounds like bullshit.
- geocrasher 5y ago
  Yes, this raised an eyebrow from me as well. Atrophy can happen in weeks. Healthy muscle mass means those muscles are being used. I suspect that there is something else going on with these diseases.

29 points by dnetesn 5y ago

As a soon-to-be father I get a little worried when I read things like this. Is there some new mental condition? Is it plastic in the water? Is it an inescapable risk? Surely, playing with the child, rubbing feet, tickling, rough-and-tumble play, throughout their childhood would all help against such a thing. Tried and true methods from ages ago. It even says in the article that the child is awake, so I don't see why you couldn't spook or tickle them into action. Is this just "new age diagnosis" that I have to wade through? (Not being facetious)

nichohel 5y ago
As a father also, I want to reassure you that you have no cause for concern: this condition only occurs in very small populations that are at risk of deportation from liberal western countries.
Maursault 5y ago
> It even says in the article that the child is awake, so I don't see why you couldn't spook or tickle them into action. I was expecting the neurologist to perform a drop test [1], but the closest to this in the article is: > [Dr. Olssen] lifted Nola’s arm to show me how limp it was. The arm dropped unceremoniously onto the bed when let go. Could this be a failed drop test? Also see: Asylum seekers with apathetic refugee children [2] [1] https://www.aafp.org/afp/1998/0515/p2485.html https://www.aafp.org/afp/1998/0515/p2485.html A few bedside tests are often helpful in patients with suspected pseudoneurologic syndrome. The first is a drop test: the clinician drops the “paralyzed” arm over the patient's face. In pseudoneurologic syndrome, the “paralyzed” arm will not strike the patient's face when dropped (i.e., a near miss). Second, the clinician can test weakness with painful stimulation. Unexpected painful stimuli to the affected extremity may cause a purposeful withdrawal response. [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asylum_seekers_with_apathetic_refugee_children https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asylum_seekers_with_apathetic_...

EarlKing 5y ago

I'll save you a click: It never explains why.

ajsnigrutin 5y ago
Thanks... i started reading, it read like a novel, talking about everything but the stuff i wanted to know, and yeah... I stopped reading.
SimeVidas 5y ago
Wikipedia to the rescue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resignation_syndrome#Causes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resignation_syndrome#Causes
MrPatan 5y ago
I came away from the article with a pretty good idea why.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

nichohel 5y ago

My impression, after viewing the documentary "Life Overtakes Me" some time ago, is that the answer to this question is: to avoid deportation by feigning mental illness.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
pnathan 5y ago
There are also allegations that the parents malnourish via the NG tube to ensure they don't get deported. What is most interesting is that it only seems to happen in Sweden, and to specific cultural groups.
- nichohel 5y ago
  The disease seems to be contagious--socially contagious. By this I mean that once it is realized that having a child lie motionless in bed is an effective way to block deportation proceedings, thanks to the extremely accommodating Swedish immigrant/refugee medical and social support apparatus, others in similar situations try it too. I don't want to diminish the very significant hardships many of these immigrant/refugees are under. If telling my child to just lie still in bed, when the social worker comes by, allows my family to stay in Sweden instead of being sent back to Syria, I would probably do it too. If it was a requirement for a NG feeding tube to be placed in the child, even that might be an unpleasant but ultimately worthwhile sacrifice. Resignation Syndrome seems to reliably and rapidly abate once the threat of deportation is removed. Is that because a massive stressor is removed and mental health can be regained? Or is it because a pretense can be lifted once the threat of deportation is removed?
  - candiodari 5y ago
    > Resignation Syndrome seems to reliably and rapidly abate once the threat of deportation is removed. Is that because a massive stressor is removed and mental health can be regained? Or is it because a pretense can be lifted once the threat of deportation is removed? I wonder why people think that there is must be a hard cutoff between these 2. You can create a very temporary OCD with "trauma" in video games. That's entirely fictional and voluntarily (literally done for fun) and yet you can clearly see the effects for a few hours after the video game session stops. It lasts longer when repeated. So here's a theory: there's a long, very slow sloping grey zone between definite OCD and entirely faked and a million gradations between the two. The longer the faking lasts the more real it becomes.

lettergram 5y ago

To me, this sounds like a fake story, almost propaganda. If it’s real, there’s something strange going on > The Times report, citing Swedish psychologist, says the children “usually woke up” after their families were granted residency, although not overnight. https://nypost.com/2021/03/31/mystery-of-sleeping-refugee-children-who-shut-down-in-coma-like-state/ https://nypost.com/2021/03/31/mystery-of-sleeping-refugee-ch... From wikipedia: > More recently, this phenomenon has been called into question, with two children witnessing that they were forced by their parents to act apathetic in order to increase chances of being granted residence permits.[3][4] As evidenced by medical records, healthcare professionals were aware of this scam, and witnessed parents who actively refused aid for their children but remained silent at the time. Later Sveriges Television, Sweden's national public television broadcaster, were severely critiqued by investigative journalist Janne Josefsson for failing to uncover the truth.[5] In March 2020, a report citing the Swedish Agency for Medical and Social Evaluation, SBU, said "There are no scientific studies that answer how to diagnose abandonment syndrome, nor what treatment works." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resignation_syndrome https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resignation_syndrome

irthomasthomas 5y ago
This is an episode of Arrested Development. https://arresteddevelopment.fandom.com/wiki/Fakin%27_It https://arresteddevelopment.fandom.com/wiki/Fakin%27_It "At the hospital, Lucille mentioned that she hoped Buster would coincidentally stay in a coma throughout the trial. Michael asked Lucille if she was responsible for this, but in fact, Buster got into G.O.B.'s forget-me-now pills."

fallingknife 5y ago

Supposedly lying down without any activity for over a year but no signs of muscle atrophy. Actively resists when doctor tries to open eyes. Jaw muscles actively clenched shut. Obvious motive to lie. Maybe there is more medical evidence, but from what the article says it sounds like bullshit.

geocrasher 5y ago
Yes, this raised an eyebrow from me as well. Atrophy can happen in weeks. Healthy muscle mass means those muscles are being used. I suspect that there is something else going on with these diseases.