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An ultimate guide to memory palaces

227 points by scher 5y ago

bayesian_horse 5y ago
It's not true that you don't understand/learn by "storing raw information". The Human brain is incapable of not understanding information. And even if there is nothing to understand in the data we try to memorize, we rather make something up to memorize it rather than forget it (what you have to do in order to use the memory palace on numbers, for example). In many subjects, rote memorization is the only route to real understanding. I'd like to name medicine, biology, law and languages. Only be memorization, over weeks and years of relentless learning and just as much forgetting, the mental infrastructure of an expert is forged. I can't cite it off hand, but there are even studies that compared understanding between students using a memory palace technique and those without. The former understood more.
- musingsole 5y ago
  Define "understood"
iambateman 5y ago
If you liked this article, check out the book Moonwalking with Einstein. I doubt it will revolutionize your life but it’s a fun read.
- floverfelt 5y ago
  Agreed! I finished it recently and it did a good job explaining how to make the memory palace really work instead of just explaining the technique.
- AnEro 5y ago
  Yea it really shows it's a skill not some weird hack that will change your life in one sitting.
yuvalr1 5y ago
I find it interesting to hear what kinds of information people find usable to memorize. If there are people here that utilize the memory palace (or any other memorizing method): what do you put inside the palace?
- rolisz 5y ago
  I use flashcards to memorize things. Sometimes I use mnemonics to memorize flashcards. I used memory palace once, to memorize something for a Romanian language exam back in highschool. Things that I memorize now: Bible verses (I've memorized all of Galatians and I'm working through Ephesians right now), a couple of important phone numbers, credit card number (I don't want to save the details on every website), and some programming concepts that I use on a roughly monthly basis - frequently enough to save time by memorizing, infrequently enough so that I can't memorize them purely by using them.
- latexr 5y ago
  > If there are people here that utilize the memory palace (or any other memorizing method): what do you put inside the palace? Your memory palace won’t store information indefinitely. Not unless you keep reviewing it, at which point it might be best to instead consult your notes. A simple use case is memorising a shopping list for an hour and letting it fade. In addition to utilitarian, it can be fun as a creative exercise because you invent interesting visual combinations. I recommend the book “Moonwalking with Einstein”[1] if you’re interested in the subject. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonwalking_with_Einstein https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonwalking_with_Einstein
- musingsole 5y ago
  > what do you put inside the palace? That's the question. You have to want to collect something. I tend to collect random connections between disparate things (i.e. the answer to an everpresent "how does this affect the price of rice on Sunday?"). The other side of it that complicates it all is that your brain works this way normally. The mind palace is just a frame you can use to access a particular subgraph of thoughts. Once you do it long enough, it becomes second nature and you realize your normal, undisciplined thoughts are just residents of a different palace.
mrock 5y ago
I've trained my memory over the last ~5 years. I became fascinated with oral cultures. How could they transmit enough knowledge to survive and basically confer PhD level knowledge of survival without books? How could they remember it all? How does your experience of the world change when every place you find yourself is (mentally) chock full of (your most prized) memories? I also wanted to get more out of reading. I used to read a book, maybe take notes and hopefully take some new action. Next year it's gone, maybe I recall 3 ideas. How could I get more out of reading? So I memorized books. Convert a book into 100-250 bullet points, memorize them in a memory palace. If I don't practice recalling my palaces, at least once every 6 months or so, I'll forget it. However, this isn't a negative. When recalling you can ask yourself questions about the knowledge. How is the relevant to my life right now? How can I apply this? How does the world look using this knowledge as a lens? How does this compare or contrast to other things I've memorized? At first this was an enormous effort. But with all training it gets faster. We've all spent thousands of hours learning to read. Now reading is unconscious, you see a word and instantly you know the concept behind. My first book took about 4 hours and reviewing it took an hour. Now reviewing a book (250 items) takes under 15 mins, and I can do it while making dinner or driving. People can memorize a deck of cards (52 facts in order) in two minutes. Eventually, I believe it's clearly possible to be able to memorize at the speed of speech (250 words per min). At the moment, I develop software. I decided to memorize the packages of the python standard library. Why? Is it going to help? It provides a link to attach concepts to. When I find a better solution than something in the standard library, I attach that memory to the standard library. Like when I think of argparse, I automaticaly think of clicklib and fire. Before coding I review the software development palace. I can hold it all in mind... because those packages have become one chunk in my mind. With all this training, my ability to visualize has just gone through the roof. At the end of the day, I can mentally re-watch my whole day and catch interesting, things that I missed in the moment. It feels like watching a vivid (albeit dreamy) movie. Anyways, like anything the deep end of this mind training is totally amazing and unlike the initial "lifehack" quick wins.
- yawn 5y ago
  Do you use the same memory palace for different "groups" of things to remember? If so, do you ever get items confused because they are at the same location in the palace?
alfiedotwtf 5y ago
I could never get memory palaces to work for me, but found that with enough practice, Mnemonic Pegs is like a superpower.
- andy_ppp 5y ago
  Interesting, I found this link that looks like a promising starting point: https://artofmemory.com/wiki/Mnemonic_Peg_System/#:~:text=A%20peg%20system%20is%20a,%E2%80%9Cpegs%E2%80%9D%20of%20the%20system https://artofmemory.com/wiki/Mnemonic_Peg_System/#:~:text=A%....
  - alfiedotwtf 5y ago
    I found the best ones turned numbers into phonetics, which created words, which you then linked to what you wanted to remember. Have a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mnemonic_major_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mnemonic_major_system it's not the system I used, but the DOS program I learned from isn't online anymore.
    - dhimes 5y ago
      This is the number system explained in The Memory Book linked by joverholt above. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28642747 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28642747
    - philipswood 5y ago
      This works really well. I remember winning a bet about who could retain a 30 (or 20 ?) digit number the longest - I won. I also used this in primary school to memorize schoolwork for exams, etc. Despite not using it actively for years I can remember the phonetic alphabet and can still "transcode" numbers to words to images and back well enough. I suspect I might be using a snatch of it here and there for a bit of a memory boost once every few months or so. I'm the end I abandoned the technique, because it felt like I was "polluting" my memory with extraneous and distracting information. Reading about memory palaces now make me think of trying them out again, it sounds like they bypass the noisy/distracting aspects of transcoding the information to nonsense associations to make them stand out. I've taught the loci system to my son in the original Greek context to memorize speeches and they work well.
jklinger410 5y ago
I have an awful memory, and I experimented with the memory palace concept for a while. The funny part is, although I haven't used it in months (years) my memory palace is still perfectly intact.
jhgb 5y ago
> Close your eyes and visualize your way to the shop in the head So I guess people with aphantasia are out of luck?
- depaulagu 5y ago
  Came here just to comment this, but yes, memory palaces don't really work for people with aphantasia
  - mrock 5y ago
    Several memory champions have aphantasia
    - depaulagu 5y ago
      didn't know that! do you know if they use memory palaces? can you share info about 'em?
      - mrock 5y ago
        Dr. Lynne Kelley the author of The Memory Code and Memory Craft has it. She uses memory palaces. With aphantasia you still have a hippocampus so thinking about the concept of space to encode info works just the same. :)
- Karawebnetwork 5y ago
  With aphantasia, you simply cannot "visualise" the way other people "visualise". But you can still "visualise". Not using images but using the other mechanisms you developed. Many people with aphantasia are unaware of it because they can function just fine and have workarounds that fills almost all their needs. They simply cannot add an image to it. Personally, I can make memory palace work fine. There's simply no image, so it rely a lot on the same "path finding" the brain uses to allow me to walk around town without getting lost. I like to joke that my GPU is broken but my CPU works fine. So, for the sake of etymology I guess it would not be visualise but factualize or some other word.
Karawebnetwork 5y ago
Mildly out of context question: Has anyone tried those virtual memory palaces available for VR headsets? I feel like this would either hack it and make it instant and available for all or fail miserably without helping memory.
joverholt 5y ago
Another good resource is The Memory Book[0]. It covers a few different systems that cover different scenarios, such as lists, like in the article, names and numbers. It uses techniques like the article, but also expands on them in interesting ways. If you put the practice time in, it does work! [0] https://www.amazon.com/Memory-Book-Classic-Improving-School/dp/0345410025 https://www.amazon.com/Memory-Book-Classic-Improving-School/...
- dhimes 5y ago
  Excellent resource, especially for numbers.
jamesash 5y ago
Moonwalking with Einstein de-mystified memory for me. As mrock described, in the beginning it was a lot of work building palaces and making associations, but like a muscle, things quickly got easier. In time, memorizing a list of 30 or so became pretty easy. I was able to memorize a list of 875 North American bird species and then recite it from memory. Took about 35 min to read it all back.
- mrock 5y ago
  That's awesome. Did it change your relationship with or experience of birds?
  - jamesash 5y ago
    It was like taking a walk around the perimeter of a huge mansion before actually exploring it. I learned the names of lots of birds and was able to associate them together, but didn't really learn their characteristics. In time I let the associations fade. Mostly it just gave me the confidence that I was capable of doing something like this if needed. Thanks for all the time you took in answering people's questions on this thread.
adiamond4 5y ago
I am creating a personal knowledge management platform called Memory Maps that enables users to build and maintain spatial mnemonics alongside their notes. -It is built on Google Maps and allows you to create memory journeys anywhere in the world where there is Google Street View coverage. -It will include an AI based copilot that can learn from the images you create, autosuggest good encoding images, and remind you of what you have already used. -Spaced repetition based active recall practice is built in and optimized for mobile. Check it out! https://www.memorymaps.io/ https://www.memorymaps.io/
- mrock 5y ago
  Great idea. I do this in a notebook. Left page: a list of items to recall, right page: a quick sketch of the palace. Rooms are simple squares. If I can't go back to the palace, then I paste in some printed photos.
ltr_ 5y ago
Been using old quake 1&3 maps that I used to play in when younger to form palaces, so far it's working great
- boneitis 5y ago
  Genius. It never occurred to me that I have a huge pool of palaces available in Counter-Strike maps.
swman 5y ago
This is so cool! I do something quite similar, so I'll memorize certain references like where in a book/movie/source something is, and what it is. Then, sometimes years later, I might be working on a problem or discussing something and not only do I have the topic in mind, I also remember the exact place I found it. Maybe this is due to the rote memorization techniques I practice in my youth as a Indian kid, by age 6 I know my times tables to 30x12. My colleagues also think its funny that I remember IDs, because they'll be fishing in their history for some ticket or article, and I'll just recall the url or item ID.
philipswood 5y ago
I tend to eschew memory techniques. Often I find forgetting is a feature and not a bug - garbage collection of the memory system if you like: a sign that (given the current presentation) the data doesn't seem relevant enough to retain. But as a child I was an avid reader and I scoured the libraries of my youth and naturally built up spatial memory maps for them. I'm in my 40s now, but I still have a sense of where and in which library certain books and certain topics go.
- scher 5y ago
  Learning something is different than using a memorizing technique. The former is for understanding and the latter is for putting impractical information. However, we may utilize the techniques to speed up or enhance the learning process.
  - mrock 5y ago
    >the latter is for putting impractical information You can also input practical information ;)
prestonbriggs 5y ago
Has anyone used this approach to memorize music? E.g., for playing an instrument. I used to be able to remember plenty when I was young and practicing a lot. And certainly professionals can remember significant amounts (and not just the music, but performance details, fingerings, etc). Seems like a different mechanism, relying less on visual and spatial associations, more on hearing. But perhaps it's similar in that you learn a structure and attach details to it. Or, having developed a good memory for music, can we use it to help memorize random facts? Perhaps associating them with places in a song.
- mrock 5y ago
  In the renascence there was a standardized system of memorized hand symbols to recall music. For guitar you can memorize fingerings by creating a person action object system in a way that tells you the fingering, the string and the fret number in one image. You can then use this to memorize classical music. With music you are going from conscious to unconscious procedural memory. But you can "double encode" using memory palaces and systems for a "backup". (It can actually help you learn it faster because you can get rid of sheet music)
- mandmandam 5y ago
  The circle of fifths can be studied (and often is) with the loci method. Visualising the circle of fifths, with the relative minors, as a real space that can be moved around in is very helpful. Music theory is full of little mnemonics, and is itself a sort of system of mnemonics: Instead of an infinite gradation of frequencies, they are reduced to 12 repeating notes within each doubling, so that a 440 Hz vibration is an A, as is a 220 and an 880 Hz vibration. If instead of doubling a frequency, we add a half to it again for a 2:3 ratio, we get a perfect fifth. By repeating this process (with some fudges) we end up with twelve notes, the circle of fifths, and the vast majority of Western music. Rather than simplistically giving these 12 notes 12 letters, they get 7, in a clever system that allows for all 24/30 major and minor scales to have one of each letter A to G. The 7 notes in any particular major or minor scale can be combined with each other to form chords. Major and minor chords each share a root and a fifth; the third is different by a single semitone. The combinations of three notes that sound nice together are thus greatly simplified. Once the circle of fifths is internalised, all 24 (or 30 - ask Wooten) major and minor chords can be constructed, transposed, and played with. So, when an experienced musician hears a song they can put all of that background to work. Instead of remembering each indivudal note played, the notes are chunked into chords, hich are chunked into keys and progressions. Once contextualised with similar pieces the memorisation becomes easier and easier. By the time all of that contextual data is assimilated, with music that is _felt_, there isn't much need (I'd imagine) for good musicians to use memory palaces for fingerings or performance details. I'd say a lot of that knowledge is in the hands, the breath, and the whole body. Disclaimer: I am not a very good musician (yet).
code51 5y ago
Isn't there a "no free lunch" about remembering as well? Yes, memory training is probably a good idea but how do you pick what to store there in the first place? Forgetting things -properly- is an underappreciated skill in my opinion.
- scher 5y ago
  There are 2 types of information for me: - For fun. Often not relevant and not practical. It's easy to forget because I don't use it. Though, I may intentionally review the information to "beat" the forgetting curve. Thus, this kind of information will be stored for more time. Artificially forced. - For practical use. This kind of information is easier to retain because it's not raw: a practice will add more "missing dots" and solidify what's learned. A forgetting process is a good filter of what we use and what we don't. The retained information indicates what things one should keep in mind. The memory palace technique is more about forcing even impractical information to retain. I'd say one should define what kind of information should be remembered in this case.
- jiggunjer 5y ago
  I imagine my set of login credentials would be a good candidate, instead of relying on a password manager.
Slow_Hand 5y ago
Does aphantasia affect the ability to create an effective memory palace? I find that my ability to visualize things in my mind’s eye is diminished and somewhat low-resolution. Has anyone here with mild or total aphantasia been successful in building a memory palace?
dpflug 5y ago
http://sauerbraten.org/ http://sauerbraten.org/ could be useful to create maps
kalyantm 5y ago
took me back to when I binge watched "the Mentalist" where Jane (the lead) explains pretty much the same thing. What an incredible show that was.
splintercell 5y ago
I don't know if others share a similar belief as me about memory and understanding, but I see it as the following model: Imagine your mind as a planet full of water (like earth) and some of its area is covered in land. There are asteroids flying into its gravitational pull and landing on the planet. If the asteroid falls out completely out in the water then it will drown. If repeatedly a lot of asteroids fall in the middle of the ocean around each other, they may be able to become an island. If it falls on the continent it becomes part of it, if it falls close to the continent then it also becomes a part of it, provided there is a connection to the continent. The continent represents our mind. The asteroids represent data. The connected part of the land represents our understanding (i.e information). If you read a piece of information such as: "Mackresh Holdings own 21% of Yojing Lee Corp, and the right to coniunctis viribus." This is an asteroid landing in the ocean, unconnected to any land, and is likely to drown (one way to avoid that is to keep landing more and more asteroids to the same spots, until it builds up into an island, this is what repetition based learning does). On the other hand if these topics can be connected to your 'continent' (i.e the body of understanding), then its far less likely to drown. For instance (completely made up) if you learned that Yojing Lee Corp owns election machines of South Korea and Mackresh holdings is a company fully owned by Mark Zuckerberg (the founder of Facebook), and the right to 'coniunctis viribus' means the right to merge companies under Korean law. Similarly if you learn that Mark Zuckerberg acquired stake in that company because he wants to connect FB to the election machines, and he wants to do that by merging the two companies, this arbitrary fact has been connected to your existing body of knowledge. If it wasn't Zuckerberg but the fictional Korean business tycoon Woo-Jun Paik from some TV show then you'd lose this connection to this fact (and the information might be Lost more easily again) as it will become an island of its own. On the other hand if you learn that this TV show was 'Lost' (part of the Korean soap opera storyline), then it might make some connection again, and that island could be found again.
csense 5y ago
I was expecting a Persona 5 strategy guide. The title's pretty misleading.

227 points by scher 5y ago

It's not true that you don't understand/learn by "storing raw information". The Human brain is incapable of not understanding information. And even if there is nothing to understand in the data we try to memorize, we rather make something up to memorize it rather than forget it (what you have to do in order to use the memory palace on numbers, for example). In many subjects, rote memorization is the only route to real understanding. I'd like to name medicine, biology, law and languages. Only be memorization, over weeks and years of relentless learning and just as much forgetting, the mental infrastructure of an expert is forged. I can't cite it off hand, but there are even studies that compared understanding between students using a memory palace technique and those without. The former understood more.

musingsole 5y ago
Define "understood"

iambateman 5y ago

If you liked this article, check out the book Moonwalking with Einstein. I doubt it will revolutionize your life but it’s a fun read.

floverfelt 5y ago
Agreed! I finished it recently and it did a good job explaining how to make the memory palace really work instead of just explaining the technique.
AnEro 5y ago
Yea it really shows it's a skill not some weird hack that will change your life in one sitting.

yuvalr1 5y ago

I find it interesting to hear what kinds of information people find usable to memorize. If there are people here that utilize the memory palace (or any other memorizing method): what do you put inside the palace?

rolisz 5y ago
I use flashcards to memorize things. Sometimes I use mnemonics to memorize flashcards. I used memory palace once, to memorize something for a Romanian language exam back in highschool. Things that I memorize now: Bible verses (I've memorized all of Galatians and I'm working through Ephesians right now), a couple of important phone numbers, credit card number (I don't want to save the details on every website), and some programming concepts that I use on a roughly monthly basis - frequently enough to save time by memorizing, infrequently enough so that I can't memorize them purely by using them.
latexr 5y ago
> If there are people here that utilize the memory palace (or any other memorizing method): what do you put inside the palace? Your memory palace won’t store information indefinitely. Not unless you keep reviewing it, at which point it might be best to instead consult your notes. A simple use case is memorising a shopping list for an hour and letting it fade. In addition to utilitarian, it can be fun as a creative exercise because you invent interesting visual combinations. I recommend the book “Moonwalking with Einstein”[1] if you’re interested in the subject. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonwalking_with_Einstein https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonwalking_with_Einstein
musingsole 5y ago
> what do you put inside the palace? That's the question. You have to want to collect something. I tend to collect random connections between disparate things (i.e. the answer to an everpresent "how does this affect the price of rice on Sunday?"). The other side of it that complicates it all is that your brain works this way normally. The mind palace is just a frame you can use to access a particular subgraph of thoughts. Once you do it long enough, it becomes second nature and you realize your normal, undisciplined thoughts are just residents of a different palace.

mrock 5y ago

I've trained my memory over the last ~5 years. I became fascinated with oral cultures. How could they transmit enough knowledge to survive and basically confer PhD level knowledge of survival without books? How could they remember it all? How does your experience of the world change when every place you find yourself is (mentally) chock full of (your most prized) memories? I also wanted to get more out of reading. I used to read a book, maybe take notes and hopefully take some new action. Next year it's gone, maybe I recall 3 ideas. How could I get more out of reading? So I memorized books. Convert a book into 100-250 bullet points, memorize them in a memory palace. If I don't practice recalling my palaces, at least once every 6 months or so, I'll forget it. However, this isn't a negative. When recalling you can ask yourself questions about the knowledge. How is the relevant to my life right now? How can I apply this? How does the world look using this knowledge as a lens? How does this compare or contrast to other things I've memorized? At first this was an enormous effort. But with all training it gets faster. We've all spent thousands of hours learning to read. Now reading is unconscious, you see a word and instantly you know the concept behind. My first book took about 4 hours and reviewing it took an hour. Now reviewing a book (250 items) takes under 15 mins, and I can do it while making dinner or driving. People can memorize a deck of cards (52 facts in order) in two minutes. Eventually, I believe it's clearly possible to be able to memorize at the speed of speech (250 words per min). At the moment, I develop software. I decided to memorize the packages of the python standard library. Why? Is it going to help? It provides a link to attach concepts to. When I find a better solution than something in the standard library, I attach that memory to the standard library. Like when I think of argparse, I automaticaly think of clicklib and fire. Before coding I review the software development palace. I can hold it all in mind... because those packages have become one chunk in my mind. With all this training, my ability to visualize has just gone through the roof. At the end of the day, I can mentally re-watch my whole day and catch interesting, things that I missed in the moment. It feels like watching a vivid (albeit dreamy) movie. Anyways, like anything the deep end of this mind training is totally amazing and unlike the initial "lifehack" quick wins.

yawn 5y ago
Do you use the same memory palace for different "groups" of things to remember? If so, do you ever get items confused because they are at the same location in the palace?

alfiedotwtf 5y ago

I could never get memory palaces to work for me, but found that with enough practice, Mnemonic Pegs is like a superpower.

andy_ppp 5y ago
Interesting, I found this link that looks like a promising starting point: https://artofmemory.com/wiki/Mnemonic_Peg_System/#:~:text=A%20peg%20system%20is%20a,%E2%80%9Cpegs%E2%80%9D%20of%20the%20system https://artofmemory.com/wiki/Mnemonic_Peg_System/#:~:text=A%....
- alfiedotwtf 5y ago
  I found the best ones turned numbers into phonetics, which created words, which you then linked to what you wanted to remember. Have a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mnemonic_major_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mnemonic_major_system it's not the system I used, but the DOS program I learned from isn't online anymore.
  - dhimes 5y ago
    This is the number system explained in The Memory Book linked by joverholt above. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28642747 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28642747
  - philipswood 5y ago
    This works really well. I remember winning a bet about who could retain a 30 (or 20 ?) digit number the longest - I won. I also used this in primary school to memorize schoolwork for exams, etc. Despite not using it actively for years I can remember the phonetic alphabet and can still "transcode" numbers to words to images and back well enough. I suspect I might be using a snatch of it here and there for a bit of a memory boost once every few months or so. I'm the end I abandoned the technique, because it felt like I was "polluting" my memory with extraneous and distracting information. Reading about memory palaces now make me think of trying them out again, it sounds like they bypass the noisy/distracting aspects of transcoding the information to nonsense associations to make them stand out. I've taught the loci system to my son in the original Greek context to memorize speeches and they work well.

jklinger410 5y ago

I have an awful memory, and I experimented with the memory palace concept for a while. The funny part is, although I haven't used it in months (years) my memory palace is still perfectly intact.

jhgb 5y ago

> Close your eyes and visualize your way to the shop in the head So I guess people with aphantasia are out of luck?

depaulagu 5y ago
Came here just to comment this, but yes, memory palaces don't really work for people with aphantasia
- mrock 5y ago
  Several memory champions have aphantasia
  - depaulagu 5y ago
    didn't know that! do you know if they use memory palaces? can you share info about 'em?
    - mrock 5y ago
      Dr. Lynne Kelley the author of The Memory Code and Memory Craft has it. She uses memory palaces. With aphantasia you still have a hippocampus so thinking about the concept of space to encode info works just the same. :)
Karawebnetwork 5y ago
With aphantasia, you simply cannot "visualise" the way other people "visualise". But you can still "visualise". Not using images but using the other mechanisms you developed. Many people with aphantasia are unaware of it because they can function just fine and have workarounds that fills almost all their needs. They simply cannot add an image to it. Personally, I can make memory palace work fine. There's simply no image, so it rely a lot on the same "path finding" the brain uses to allow me to walk around town without getting lost. I like to joke that my GPU is broken but my CPU works fine. So, for the sake of etymology I guess it would not be visualise but factualize or some other word.

Karawebnetwork 5y ago

Mildly out of context question: Has anyone tried those virtual memory palaces available for VR headsets? I feel like this would either hack it and make it instant and available for all or fail miserably without helping memory.

joverholt 5y ago

Another good resource is The Memory Book[0]. It covers a few different systems that cover different scenarios, such as lists, like in the article, names and numbers. It uses techniques like the article, but also expands on them in interesting ways. If you put the practice time in, it does work! [0] https://www.amazon.com/Memory-Book-Classic-Improving-School/dp/0345410025 https://www.amazon.com/Memory-Book-Classic-Improving-School/...

dhimes 5y ago
Excellent resource, especially for numbers.

jamesash 5y ago

Moonwalking with Einstein de-mystified memory for me. As mrock described, in the beginning it was a lot of work building palaces and making associations, but like a muscle, things quickly got easier. In time, memorizing a list of 30 or so became pretty easy. I was able to memorize a list of 875 North American bird species and then recite it from memory. Took about 35 min to read it all back.

mrock 5y ago
That's awesome. Did it change your relationship with or experience of birds?
- jamesash 5y ago
  It was like taking a walk around the perimeter of a huge mansion before actually exploring it. I learned the names of lots of birds and was able to associate them together, but didn't really learn their characteristics. In time I let the associations fade. Mostly it just gave me the confidence that I was capable of doing something like this if needed. Thanks for all the time you took in answering people's questions on this thread.

adiamond4 5y ago

I am creating a personal knowledge management platform called Memory Maps that enables users to build and maintain spatial mnemonics alongside their notes. -It is built on Google Maps and allows you to create memory journeys anywhere in the world where there is Google Street View coverage. -It will include an AI based copilot that can learn from the images you create, autosuggest good encoding images, and remind you of what you have already used. -Spaced repetition based active recall practice is built in and optimized for mobile. Check it out! https://www.memorymaps.io/ https://www.memorymaps.io/

mrock 5y ago
Great idea. I do this in a notebook. Left page: a list of items to recall, right page: a quick sketch of the palace. Rooms are simple squares. If I can't go back to the palace, then I paste in some printed photos.

ltr_ 5y ago

Been using old quake 1&3 maps that I used to play in when younger to form palaces, so far it's working great

boneitis 5y ago
Genius. It never occurred to me that I have a huge pool of palaces available in Counter-Strike maps.

swman 5y ago

This is so cool! I do something quite similar, so I'll memorize certain references like where in a book/movie/source something is, and what it is. Then, sometimes years later, I might be working on a problem or discussing something and not only do I have the topic in mind, I also remember the exact place I found it. Maybe this is due to the rote memorization techniques I practice in my youth as a Indian kid, by age 6 I know my times tables to 30x12. My colleagues also think its funny that I remember IDs, because they'll be fishing in their history for some ticket or article, and I'll just recall the url or item ID.

philipswood 5y ago

I tend to eschew memory techniques. Often I find forgetting is a feature and not a bug - garbage collection of the memory system if you like: a sign that (given the current presentation) the data doesn't seem relevant enough to retain. But as a child I was an avid reader and I scoured the libraries of my youth and naturally built up spatial memory maps for them. I'm in my 40s now, but I still have a sense of where and in which library certain books and certain topics go.

scher 5y ago
Learning something is different than using a memorizing technique. The former is for understanding and the latter is for putting impractical information. However, we may utilize the techniques to speed up or enhance the learning process.
- mrock 5y ago
  >the latter is for putting impractical information You can also input practical information ;)

prestonbriggs 5y ago

Has anyone used this approach to memorize music? E.g., for playing an instrument. I used to be able to remember plenty when I was young and practicing a lot. And certainly professionals can remember significant amounts (and not just the music, but performance details, fingerings, etc). Seems like a different mechanism, relying less on visual and spatial associations, more on hearing. But perhaps it's similar in that you learn a structure and attach details to it. Or, having developed a good memory for music, can we use it to help memorize random facts? Perhaps associating them with places in a song.

mrock 5y ago
In the renascence there was a standardized system of memorized hand symbols to recall music. For guitar you can memorize fingerings by creating a person action object system in a way that tells you the fingering, the string and the fret number in one image. You can then use this to memorize classical music. With music you are going from conscious to unconscious procedural memory. But you can "double encode" using memory palaces and systems for a "backup". (It can actually help you learn it faster because you can get rid of sheet music)
mandmandam 5y ago
The circle of fifths can be studied (and often is) with the loci method. Visualising the circle of fifths, with the relative minors, as a real space that can be moved around in is very helpful. Music theory is full of little mnemonics, and is itself a sort of system of mnemonics: Instead of an infinite gradation of frequencies, they are reduced to 12 repeating notes within each doubling, so that a 440 Hz vibration is an A, as is a 220 and an 880 Hz vibration. If instead of doubling a frequency, we add a half to it again for a 2:3 ratio, we get a perfect fifth. By repeating this process (with some fudges) we end up with twelve notes, the circle of fifths, and the vast majority of Western music. Rather than simplistically giving these 12 notes 12 letters, they get 7, in a clever system that allows for all 24/30 major and minor scales to have one of each letter A to G. The 7 notes in any particular major or minor scale can be combined with each other to form chords. Major and minor chords each share a root and a fifth; the third is different by a single semitone. The combinations of three notes that sound nice together are thus greatly simplified. Once the circle of fifths is internalised, all 24 (or 30 - ask Wooten) major and minor chords can be constructed, transposed, and played with. So, when an experienced musician hears a song they can put all of that background to work. Instead of remembering each indivudal note played, the notes are chunked into chords, hich are chunked into keys and progressions. Once contextualised with similar pieces the memorisation becomes easier and easier. By the time all of that contextual data is assimilated, with music that is _felt_, there isn't much need (I'd imagine) for good musicians to use memory palaces for fingerings or performance details. I'd say a lot of that knowledge is in the hands, the breath, and the whole body. Disclaimer: I am not a very good musician (yet).

code51 5y ago

Isn't there a "no free lunch" about remembering as well? Yes, memory training is probably a good idea but how do you pick what to store there in the first place? Forgetting things -properly- is an underappreciated skill in my opinion.

scher 5y ago
There are 2 types of information for me: - For fun. Often not relevant and not practical. It's easy to forget because I don't use it. Though, I may intentionally review the information to "beat" the forgetting curve. Thus, this kind of information will be stored for more time. Artificially forced. - For practical use. This kind of information is easier to retain because it's not raw: a practice will add more "missing dots" and solidify what's learned. A forgetting process is a good filter of what we use and what we don't. The retained information indicates what things one should keep in mind. The memory palace technique is more about forcing even impractical information to retain. I'd say one should define what kind of information should be remembered in this case.
jiggunjer 5y ago
I imagine my set of login credentials would be a good candidate, instead of relying on a password manager.

Slow_Hand 5y ago

Does aphantasia affect the ability to create an effective memory palace? I find that my ability to visualize things in my mind’s eye is diminished and somewhat low-resolution. Has anyone here with mild or total aphantasia been successful in building a memory palace?

dpflug 5y ago

http://sauerbraten.org/ http://sauerbraten.org/ could be useful to create maps

kalyantm 5y ago

took me back to when I binge watched "the Mentalist" where Jane (the lead) explains pretty much the same thing. What an incredible show that was.

splintercell 5y ago

I don't know if others share a similar belief as me about memory and understanding, but I see it as the following model: Imagine your mind as a planet full of water (like earth) and some of its area is covered in land. There are asteroids flying into its gravitational pull and landing on the planet. If the asteroid falls out completely out in the water then it will drown. If repeatedly a lot of asteroids fall in the middle of the ocean around each other, they may be able to become an island. If it falls on the continent it becomes part of it, if it falls close to the continent then it also becomes a part of it, provided there is a connection to the continent. The continent represents our mind. The asteroids represent data. The connected part of the land represents our understanding (i.e information). If you read a piece of information such as: "Mackresh Holdings own 21% of Yojing Lee Corp, and the right to coniunctis viribus." This is an asteroid landing in the ocean, unconnected to any land, and is likely to drown (one way to avoid that is to keep landing more and more asteroids to the same spots, until it builds up into an island, this is what repetition based learning does). On the other hand if these topics can be connected to your 'continent' (i.e the body of understanding), then its far less likely to drown. For instance (completely made up) if you learned that Yojing Lee Corp owns election machines of South Korea and Mackresh holdings is a company fully owned by Mark Zuckerberg (the founder of Facebook), and the right to 'coniunctis viribus' means the right to merge companies under Korean law. Similarly if you learn that Mark Zuckerberg acquired stake in that company because he wants to connect FB to the election machines, and he wants to do that by merging the two companies, this arbitrary fact has been connected to your existing body of knowledge. If it wasn't Zuckerberg but the fictional Korean business tycoon Woo-Jun Paik from some TV show then you'd lose this connection to this fact (and the information might be Lost more easily again) as it will become an island of its own. On the other hand if you learn that this TV show was 'Lost' (part of the Korean soap opera storyline), then it might make some connection again, and that island could be found again.

csense 5y ago

I was expecting a Persona 5 strategy guide. The title's pretty misleading.