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Total surveillance doesn't have to be a bad thing, if it can only be accessed through a court order in order to be used for solving a crime or as evidence in co

Total surveillance doesn't have to be a bad thing, if it can only be accessed through a court order in order to be used for solving a crime or as evidence in court. However, I can only see this happening in very developed and transparent democracies. Otherwise it is most likely gonna be abused in every way it can. Serbia already leans towards being a police state, at least in comparison to other European states, so that would just make the situation there worse.

kashug 5y ago
My problem with it is that once you have total surveillance it is hard to get rid of. And even if I trust the current goverment, do I trust the next?
- rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago
  Even trusted governments can't guarantee that bad actors cannot access the data captured by the surveillance system. If a government need total surveillance, it is because the government don't trust its people, which is because the people does not trust the government. This cannot fix trust issues with surveillance, you must solve this with more/better democracy, not police.
djbebs 5y ago
No, surveillance is a bad thing period. No exceptions.
- ivanhoe 5y ago
  There's a big mobster war going on in Serbia (and region) right now, and almost all of the dozens of recent big murder cases were at least partially solved thanks to surveillance cameras, phone tapping and cell towers logs. So surveillance when used for good can be extremely useful tool for justice and increase the safety of the public. It's the same mentality as with the nuclear plants paranoia. Yes they can be dangerous if protocols fail, and yes that makes them a liability and requires constant care - but it's not a reason to completely ban a technology which also can give so many benefits to the society.
  - crypt1d 5y ago
    There's a huge difference between deploying cameras in public places so that u can go back and look at the records if something happens, and deploying cameras across the whole city that do real-time biometric identification on a mass scale. Its scary and heart-breaking, and no amount of protocol will make the tech safe from corruption. Frankly anyone that actually believes that these systems wont be abused is delusional at best.
    - ivanhoe 5y ago
      > There's a huge difference between deploying cameras in public places so that u can go back and look at the records if something happens, Wait a sec, I agree with you, but that's not what the parent comment claims. It says "surveillance is a bad thing period" and that's just not true, some forms of surveillance in some places can both help police and make people feel safer. Would anyone in their right mind rather park their new car in some dark alley, than under the eye of cctv camera? Of course not... so parent commenter made a huge bad generalization and that's the part I was commenting on.
      - RandyGoldy 5y ago
        I want to say that I have friends who are against installing a video surveillance camera in the house because, lol, they are afraid that they will look ridiculous later on the record. I mean, do you understand? Are people willing to sacrifice their safety in order NOT to look ridiculous? Well, I have another opinion on this, there have been cameras at home for a long time, but I just recently purchased Ajax smoke and water level sensors and was already able to connect my cameras to their application so that everything was in one place. This is very convenient, I want to say.
127 5y ago
Name one place where it didn't get abused in any way?
mdp2021 5y ago
Once you build nuclear weapons, then you have to maintain them, and hope the required budget will remain in the future, and that corruption will not disrupt the processes involved. Once you create repositories collecting data on third parties, you similarly will have to ensure that they will be protected against leaks - that the state may keep track just to be sure does not mean you would ever accept to live in glass walls. Responsibility wise, if you gave a credit card number to a vendor, you trusted his security measures against leaking, but how about data that was copied without your consent? Who has access, how is it protected, who is responsible? (Just one of the possible points.)
dane-pgp 5y ago
That's a bit like saying: "I don't mind giving my government absolute power, because my government isn't corrupt absolutely."
saba2008 5y ago
Chemical factory in the middle of heavily populated area doesn't have to be a bad thing, if it is properly managed and safety systems are operating perfectly.

kashug 5y ago

My problem with it is that once you have total surveillance it is hard to get rid of. And even if I trust the current goverment, do I trust the next?

rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago
Even trusted governments can't guarantee that bad actors cannot access the data captured by the surveillance system. If a government need total surveillance, it is because the government don't trust its people, which is because the people does not trust the government. This cannot fix trust issues with surveillance, you must solve this with more/better democracy, not police.

djbebs 5y ago

No, surveillance is a bad thing period. No exceptions.

ivanhoe 5y ago
There's a big mobster war going on in Serbia (and region) right now, and almost all of the dozens of recent big murder cases were at least partially solved thanks to surveillance cameras, phone tapping and cell towers logs. So surveillance when used for good can be extremely useful tool for justice and increase the safety of the public. It's the same mentality as with the nuclear plants paranoia. Yes they can be dangerous if protocols fail, and yes that makes them a liability and requires constant care - but it's not a reason to completely ban a technology which also can give so many benefits to the society.
- crypt1d 5y ago
  There's a huge difference between deploying cameras in public places so that u can go back and look at the records if something happens, and deploying cameras across the whole city that do real-time biometric identification on a mass scale. Its scary and heart-breaking, and no amount of protocol will make the tech safe from corruption. Frankly anyone that actually believes that these systems wont be abused is delusional at best.
  - ivanhoe 5y ago
    > There's a huge difference between deploying cameras in public places so that u can go back and look at the records if something happens, Wait a sec, I agree with you, but that's not what the parent comment claims. It says "surveillance is a bad thing period" and that's just not true, some forms of surveillance in some places can both help police and make people feel safer. Would anyone in their right mind rather park their new car in some dark alley, than under the eye of cctv camera? Of course not... so parent commenter made a huge bad generalization and that's the part I was commenting on.
    - RandyGoldy 5y ago
      I want to say that I have friends who are against installing a video surveillance camera in the house because, lol, they are afraid that they will look ridiculous later on the record. I mean, do you understand? Are people willing to sacrifice their safety in order NOT to look ridiculous? Well, I have another opinion on this, there have been cameras at home for a long time, but I just recently purchased Ajax smoke and water level sensors and was already able to connect my cameras to their application so that everything was in one place. This is very convenient, I want to say.

127 5y ago

Name one place where it didn't get abused in any way?

mdp2021 5y ago

Once you build nuclear weapons, then you have to maintain them, and hope the required budget will remain in the future, and that corruption will not disrupt the processes involved. Once you create repositories collecting data on third parties, you similarly will have to ensure that they will be protected against leaks - that the state may keep track just to be sure does not mean you would ever accept to live in glass walls. Responsibility wise, if you gave a credit card number to a vendor, you trusted his security measures against leaking, but how about data that was copied without your consent? Who has access, how is it protected, who is responsible? (Just one of the possible points.)

dane-pgp 5y ago

That's a bit like saying: "I don't mind giving my government absolute power, because my government isn't corrupt absolutely."

saba2008 5y ago

Chemical factory in the middle of heavily populated area doesn't have to be a bad thing, if it is properly managed and safety systems are operating perfectly.