4 ms·

Market access; the USA has a sovereign market of ~25% world GDP. Within this market the rules are all the fiat of the USA, other players can have a bit - so lon

by sgt101 5y ago

Market access; the USA has a sovereign market of ~25% world GDP. Within this market the rules are all the fiat of the USA, other players can have a bit - so long as their contribution is net positive for the citizens of the USA. Any innovation is used to create value in this market and the result is an industry that then can go on to be a world beater. China is doing the same sort of thing now. This is natural - it's just how states and markets work and use innovation. The UK has a market of ~2% of world gdp - it's industries are bound to be 1/10 of the size of the USA's, in practice less as it will always be at a structural disadvantage. The EU has a market approximately the same size as the USA and China. The puzzle is why the EU doesn't have dominant industries - this is especially stark in sectors that have evolved since the 1980's. Software and Computer Hardware (chips) are clearly one of these, green tech is another.

ajuc 5y ago
> The puzzle is why the EU doesn't have dominant industries It has - cars, industrial automation and finance.
agent327 5y ago
The EU is a collection of countries with completely different languages and cultures. Doing business in another EU country is far more complex than doing business in another US state. Writing on a piece of paper that there is a single common market doesn't make it so. Only a handful of really large companies (Airbus is the only one I can think of right away) can manage.
- bserge 5y ago
  More like doing business in the EU is far more complex.
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    EU is not a single country, these countrues wrestle for control, so it's complex in that sence. But it's not like the laws are particularly weired. I was amazed when i learned that in US it's a federal crime to posses a lobster that is too short.
    - bserge 5y ago
      High spending on employees, very risk averse investors, failure is seen as major shame, slow to form a company (not that big of a deal), sometimes weird restrictions on managers/directors. It is a criminal offense to use public transport without paying in Germany.
- LightG 5y ago
  Compared to the USA, maybe (even that is arguable from what I've heard about the US legal system). But I'm coming from a situation of before-and-after Brexit. Before Brexit, trade in the EU was a comparative breeze. It's an absolute dogsh!t, nightmare now (from a UK perspective).
  - agent327 5y ago
    You're not another EU country anymore, mate. Not to worry though, the whole damn thing will collapse sooner rather than later, and then you'll be happy to watch the implosion from a comparatively safe distance...
    - LightG 5y ago
      Thanks for pointing that out. That's a revelation. However, we do still trade with the EU, so the current situation is less than ideal. As would be your "implosion" fantasy. Not my cup of tea, thank you.
rini17 5y ago
Please name any dominant US industry that isn't connected to defense (powered by flood of the world's reserve currency) or to venture capital (ditto). EU just does not have such resources and, till recently, the will.
- sgt101 5y ago
  Well - I can't name a US industry that's part of its international dominance that isn't part of it's international dominance. Would you include Education? I guess that the USA dominates higher education in terms of $$ as well as prestige.
  - rini17 5y ago
    I'm not excluding anything, let's look into it. In The US there is about 600k international students [1]. In the EU if I read [2] correctly about half of total 1.3m foreign students is from outside Europe which is same or a bit more ( and european non-EU-members are probably not included, that would raise the number). It is very likely that US edu gets bigger profit, but dominance isn't only about profit. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/233880/international-students-in-the-us-by-country-of-origin/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/233880/international-stu... [2] https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Learning_mobility_statistics#Students_from_abroad https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...
mmarq 5y ago
> The puzzle is why the EU doesn't have dominant industries - this is especially stark in sectors that have evolved since the 1980's. Software and Computer Hardware (chips) are clearly one of these, green tech is another. I’m not an expert on the matter, but continental Europe is very conservative compared to the Anglo-Saxon world (here conservative doesn’t mean xenophobia and imperial units, but reluctant to change). My pet theory is that continental Europe is an older continent, where, to oversimplify, electorates understand cars but not computers. On top of that: VCs, angel investors, etc… are not a thing, bankruptcy laws are not as good as in the UK or the US, and bureaucracy is a massive drag. I set up a small software company in the UK, I spent probably 30£. In Italy it would have cost 5000€ just to register the company. God knows how much tax a software company pays in Italy (which is not the same as a café, which is not the same as a lawyer, which is not the same as a cleaning company, etc…).

by sgt101 5y ago

ajuc 5y ago

> The puzzle is why the EU doesn't have dominant industries It has - cars, industrial automation and finance.

agent327 5y ago

The EU is a collection of countries with completely different languages and cultures. Doing business in another EU country is far more complex than doing business in another US state. Writing on a piece of paper that there is a single common market doesn't make it so. Only a handful of really large companies (Airbus is the only one I can think of right away) can manage.

bserge 5y ago
More like doing business in the EU is far more complex.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  EU is not a single country, these countrues wrestle for control, so it's complex in that sence. But it's not like the laws are particularly weired. I was amazed when i learned that in US it's a federal crime to posses a lobster that is too short.
  - bserge 5y ago
    High spending on employees, very risk averse investors, failure is seen as major shame, slow to form a company (not that big of a deal), sometimes weird restrictions on managers/directors. It is a criminal offense to use public transport without paying in Germany.
LightG 5y ago
Compared to the USA, maybe (even that is arguable from what I've heard about the US legal system). But I'm coming from a situation of before-and-after Brexit. Before Brexit, trade in the EU was a comparative breeze. It's an absolute dogsh!t, nightmare now (from a UK perspective).
- agent327 5y ago
  You're not another EU country anymore, mate. Not to worry though, the whole damn thing will collapse sooner rather than later, and then you'll be happy to watch the implosion from a comparatively safe distance...
  - LightG 5y ago
    Thanks for pointing that out. That's a revelation. However, we do still trade with the EU, so the current situation is less than ideal. As would be your "implosion" fantasy. Not my cup of tea, thank you.

rini17 5y ago

Please name any dominant US industry that isn't connected to defense (powered by flood of the world's reserve currency) or to venture capital (ditto). EU just does not have such resources and, till recently, the will.

sgt101 5y ago
Well - I can't name a US industry that's part of its international dominance that isn't part of it's international dominance. Would you include Education? I guess that the USA dominates higher education in terms of $$ as well as prestige.
- rini17 5y ago
  I'm not excluding anything, let's look into it. In The US there is about 600k international students [1]. In the EU if I read [2] correctly about half of total 1.3m foreign students is from outside Europe which is same or a bit more ( and european non-EU-members are probably not included, that would raise the number). It is very likely that US edu gets bigger profit, but dominance isn't only about profit. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/233880/international-students-in-the-us-by-country-of-origin/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/233880/international-stu... [2] https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Learning_mobility_statistics#Students_from_abroad https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...

mmarq 5y ago

> The puzzle is why the EU doesn't have dominant industries - this is especially stark in sectors that have evolved since the 1980's. Software and Computer Hardware (chips) are clearly one of these, green tech is another. I’m not an expert on the matter, but continental Europe is very conservative compared to the Anglo-Saxon world (here conservative doesn’t mean xenophobia and imperial units, but reluctant to change). My pet theory is that continental Europe is an older continent, where, to oversimplify, electorates understand cars but not computers. On top of that: VCs, angel investors, etc… are not a thing, bankruptcy laws are not as good as in the UK or the US, and bureaucracy is a massive drag. I set up a small software company in the UK, I spent probably 30£. In Italy it would have cost 5000€ just to register the company. God knows how much tax a software company pays in Italy (which is not the same as a café, which is not the same as a lawyer, which is not the same as a cleaning company, etc…).