4 ms·

These trash cans will most likely be on the street for decades to come. For better or worse they'll be part of the city's image. I can totally understand why a

by ginko 5y ago

These trash cans will most likely be on the street for decades to come. For better or worse they'll be part of the city's image. I can totally understand why a larger city like SF wants to spend some resources on this rather than just pick the next best off-the shelf solution without much thought.

refurb 5y ago
"Part of the city's image"? I'd argue the city's image is dominated by homelessness, poop on the streets, lackluster enforcement of the law, corruption in city hall. They could come up with the best possible trash can ever invented and it wouldn't move the need on resident's quality of life. Total waste of money.
- ginko 5y ago
  > "Part of the city's image"? I'd argue the city's image is dominated by homelessness, poop on the streets, lackluster enforcement of the law, corruption in city hall. I mean I've only been to San Francisco a few times, but apart from the Tenderloin I thought it was a very beautiful city. Yeah, homelessness and public defecation are a problem, but do these have to be brought up in ANY discussion regarding SF? Groups of people can deal with multiple issues at once.
  - refurb 5y ago
    SF is a unique city in a beautiful location with a ton of organization problems. And yes, people love to exaggerate the problems, but I live outside the Tenderloin and still see poop on the street (though rarely) so these aren't limited to certain areas. As a tax payer, I've noted that San Francisco has actually been removing trash cans, that worked perfectly well, because people just dump trash beside them for the city to pick up. No trash can, no dumping? No, they dump anyways. So the solution isn't to use the old design which seemed to work "ok". Or even talk to other cities to see if they have better options SF could just buy. It was to completely redesign a trash can. Insane. I'm waiting for SF to hire an outside firm to resign the tires on their city vehicles. So yes, you can solve multiple problems at once, but there are also only so many hours in the day and so many tax dollars to work with and spending any time/money on new trash cans is less time solving actual quality of life problems.
  - sgtnoodle 5y ago
    It seems at least tangentially relevant to the discussion more so than most, doesn't it? Memories of human waste in the streets is the first thing I thought about after reading this article. I usually see at least one pile when I go into SF and walk around. I've also seen people actively relieving themselves and worse, and I've only wandered around SF maybe a dozen times. Designing custom trash cans to optimize for esthetics in this context seems analogous to polishing a turd. It sounds like the bigger issue, ignoring potential corruption, is that they expect telemetry and sliding mechanisms in what notionally should just be some bent sheet metal, and assumed the stuff on the market was overpriced.
    - ryan_lane 5y ago
      I lived in SF for a decade and saw poop on the street maybe once a year. I saw a needle maybe twice total. You're a tourist and you go to tourist places and most of those areas suck. They also tend to have more homeless people than average because tourists give more money to them than locals. Tourist areas in most cities are also where most crime and homelessness live.
      - thaumasiotes 5y ago
        > I lived in SF for a decade and saw poop on the street maybe once a year. I lived in San Francisco for less than one year and saw people in the act of defecating in public more often than that. This was strictly a matter of walking between my apartment and my job.
      - sgtnoodle 5y ago
        To an extent sure, but on the other hand I have been a tourist in many cities and the only one I've regularly encountered human waste in is SF.
  - thaumasiotes 5y ago
    > Yeah, homelessness and public defecation are a problem, but do these have to be brought up in ANY discussion regarding SF? Yes, unless public defecation has suddenly become some kind of understandable foible that might happen anywhere.
- AussieWog93 5y ago
  Honestly, I think juxtaposing the world's most finely engineered trash can with members of a crime-ridden, homeless underclass that shit in the middle of the street is a perfect representation of the image that San Francisco projects globally.
  - thaumasiotes 5y ago
    San Francisco has an image in China of a place in the US where you can live without needing to speak English. Unrelatedly, I find it interesting that, despite the fact that the Chinese name of the city is 旧金山, San Francisco insists on using a different name for itself in its official Chinese communications.
- ryan_lane 5y ago
  You don't want poop on the streets? Let people use a restroom. People aren't shitting in the streets because they like to. They're doing it because no business will let homeless people use the restroom, and there's no public restrooms. Want to end homelessness? Give people homes. We can't do that, though, because public housing is "socialism". Want less crime? Make sure people can afford to live and you'll see less crime. Enforcement of the law isn't the problem here, especially since crime levels are generally at some of the lowest levels in decades. Corruption is a strawman. You can point at basically anything and complain about "corruption" and people will agree with you. This isn't adding anything to the conversation unless you're talking about wanting to fix specific corruption.
  - refurb 5y ago
    This take seems based on fantasy. SF is the most left-wing city in the US, and proudly labels itself socialist. The public housing in SF is a crime-ridden dump. The crime is often due to organized criminal gangs, at least the car break-ins and shoplifting, the most visible and quality of life impacting crimes. Nobody is stealing clothing from malls because they are poor. And no, corruption is not a strawman. When the city says "we just need more money", saying "stop wasting money on redesigned garbage cans that enrich your donors" is an perfectly reasonable response. It's excuses like yours that detract from actually fixing the problems.
  - HonestOp001 5y ago
    Homelessness is incorrectly defined. We need to separate the reasons for it: 1. Financial hardships 2. Mental illness 3. Lifestyle change
- CountSessine 5y ago
  Maybe a gussied-up trash can is an excellent metaphor for 2021’s San Francisco? A city that can engage in world-class bike-shedding, but can’t deal with the entrenched interests and perverse incentives that make life miserable for so many of its inhabitants?

by ginko 5y ago

refurb 5y ago

"Part of the city's image"? I'd argue the city's image is dominated by homelessness, poop on the streets, lackluster enforcement of the law, corruption in city hall. They could come up with the best possible trash can ever invented and it wouldn't move the need on resident's quality of life. Total waste of money.

ginko 5y ago
> "Part of the city's image"? I'd argue the city's image is dominated by homelessness, poop on the streets, lackluster enforcement of the law, corruption in city hall. I mean I've only been to San Francisco a few times, but apart from the Tenderloin I thought it was a very beautiful city. Yeah, homelessness and public defecation are a problem, but do these have to be brought up in ANY discussion regarding SF? Groups of people can deal with multiple issues at once.
- refurb 5y ago
  SF is a unique city in a beautiful location with a ton of organization problems. And yes, people love to exaggerate the problems, but I live outside the Tenderloin and still see poop on the street (though rarely) so these aren't limited to certain areas. As a tax payer, I've noted that San Francisco has actually been removing trash cans, that worked perfectly well, because people just dump trash beside them for the city to pick up. No trash can, no dumping? No, they dump anyways. So the solution isn't to use the old design which seemed to work "ok". Or even talk to other cities to see if they have better options SF could just buy. It was to completely redesign a trash can. Insane. I'm waiting for SF to hire an outside firm to resign the tires on their city vehicles. So yes, you can solve multiple problems at once, but there are also only so many hours in the day and so many tax dollars to work with and spending any time/money on new trash cans is less time solving actual quality of life problems.
- sgtnoodle 5y ago
  It seems at least tangentially relevant to the discussion more so than most, doesn't it? Memories of human waste in the streets is the first thing I thought about after reading this article. I usually see at least one pile when I go into SF and walk around. I've also seen people actively relieving themselves and worse, and I've only wandered around SF maybe a dozen times. Designing custom trash cans to optimize for esthetics in this context seems analogous to polishing a turd. It sounds like the bigger issue, ignoring potential corruption, is that they expect telemetry and sliding mechanisms in what notionally should just be some bent sheet metal, and assumed the stuff on the market was overpriced.
  - ryan_lane 5y ago
    I lived in SF for a decade and saw poop on the street maybe once a year. I saw a needle maybe twice total. You're a tourist and you go to tourist places and most of those areas suck. They also tend to have more homeless people than average because tourists give more money to them than locals. Tourist areas in most cities are also where most crime and homelessness live.
    - thaumasiotes 5y ago
      > I lived in SF for a decade and saw poop on the street maybe once a year. I lived in San Francisco for less than one year and saw people in the act of defecating in public more often than that. This was strictly a matter of walking between my apartment and my job.
    - sgtnoodle 5y ago
      To an extent sure, but on the other hand I have been a tourist in many cities and the only one I've regularly encountered human waste in is SF.
- thaumasiotes 5y ago
  > Yeah, homelessness and public defecation are a problem, but do these have to be brought up in ANY discussion regarding SF? Yes, unless public defecation has suddenly become some kind of understandable foible that might happen anywhere.
AussieWog93 5y ago
Honestly, I think juxtaposing the world's most finely engineered trash can with members of a crime-ridden, homeless underclass that shit in the middle of the street is a perfect representation of the image that San Francisco projects globally.
- thaumasiotes 5y ago
  San Francisco has an image in China of a place in the US where you can live without needing to speak English. Unrelatedly, I find it interesting that, despite the fact that the Chinese name of the city is 旧金山, San Francisco insists on using a different name for itself in its official Chinese communications.
ryan_lane 5y ago
You don't want poop on the streets? Let people use a restroom. People aren't shitting in the streets because they like to. They're doing it because no business will let homeless people use the restroom, and there's no public restrooms. Want to end homelessness? Give people homes. We can't do that, though, because public housing is "socialism". Want less crime? Make sure people can afford to live and you'll see less crime. Enforcement of the law isn't the problem here, especially since crime levels are generally at some of the lowest levels in decades. Corruption is a strawman. You can point at basically anything and complain about "corruption" and people will agree with you. This isn't adding anything to the conversation unless you're talking about wanting to fix specific corruption.
- refurb 5y ago
  This take seems based on fantasy. SF is the most left-wing city in the US, and proudly labels itself socialist. The public housing in SF is a crime-ridden dump. The crime is often due to organized criminal gangs, at least the car break-ins and shoplifting, the most visible and quality of life impacting crimes. Nobody is stealing clothing from malls because they are poor. And no, corruption is not a strawman. When the city says "we just need more money", saying "stop wasting money on redesigned garbage cans that enrich your donors" is an perfectly reasonable response. It's excuses like yours that detract from actually fixing the problems.
- HonestOp001 5y ago
  Homelessness is incorrectly defined. We need to separate the reasons for it: 1. Financial hardships 2. Mental illness 3. Lifestyle change
CountSessine 5y ago
Maybe a gussied-up trash can is an excellent metaphor for 2021’s San Francisco? A city that can engage in world-class bike-shedding, but can’t deal with the entrenched interests and perverse incentives that make life miserable for so many of its inhabitants?