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Is there a good source for info on ketogenic diets for type 1 diabetics? My youngest has been on pump therapy for the past 5 years and is completely burnt out

by jcims 5y ago

Is there a good source for info on ketogenic diets for type 1 diabetics? My youngest has been on pump therapy for the past 5 years and is completely burnt out from all of the alerts and scares (some of it is self inflicted). She was on a medtronic closed loop system for 4 years and that was the source of most of her frustration. She's on g6+tslim now which has been much better, but she still falls off the wagon regularly. I just think a keto diet would make it easier for her, but I'm seeing all sorts of conflicting info on it and her doctors don't support it. I've done it a few times in the past and getting started is the hardest part. I'd like for her to try but I'm getting no support on the idea. ?

rpmisms 5y ago
Keto is generally best once you've finished developing. If she's under 18, I wouldn't do Keto.
- jcims 5y ago
  She's right on the bubble, but something tells me I've got some time.
tempdiabetic 5y ago
Dr. Phinney's lectures (Virta Health) are a good resource. Here's the first one, it's easy to find the rest: https://youtu.be/1IEuhp8RFMU https://youtu.be/1IEuhp8RFMU Your fat sources should be nuts and olive oil and chia seed, with some cheese and egg. Healthy food with lots of healthy fat. The brain uses ketones as fuel, so you will find that hypoglycemia is easily handled. In ketosis, your brain will have plenty of fuel, even if your blood glucose drops too low.
gukov 5y ago
Look into the Type1Grit community: https://youtu.be/FXRNYWPooqc https://youtu.be/FXRNYWPooqc
DougWebb 5y ago
I'd recommend watching Dr Sten Eckberg's videos, like this one: https://youtu.be/XTmUnIrmAe8 https://youtu.be/XTmUnIrmAe8 I'm on a keto diet for chronic insulin resistance and obesity, caused by 50 years of high carb eating. (Every meal a sandwich, or including potatoes or rice, and lots of sugar.) I got a CGM a few months ago to help me directly see the impact of the foods I'm eating. It has allowed me to fine tune my diet and get rid of everything that causes a noticable rise in my glucose. My daily graph now shows little more than than the natural daily cycle of glucose produced by my liver: starts rising before dawn, peaks around 10am, drops to my average by 6pm, and drops to daily low around 3am. If I were a type 2 diabetic (I was headed there), I wouldn't need supplemental insulin because I'm not eating anything that increases my glucose. The only glucose in my blood is the small amount my liver puts there because I need it. If I were type 1, I'd need to take insulin because my body wouldn't be making any at all. With my natural, consistent, and small-range daily pattern, it would be easy to predict my needs and take the right amount at the right time. CGMs are life changing.
- LegitShady 5y ago
  so what foods did you cut out, and what foods do you regularly eat?
  - DougWebb 5y ago
    Everybody's body responds differently, so you have to experiment to see what works for you. The CGM has been a great tool for that. I also use a Keto-Mojo for blood glucose and ketone testing now and then. What's worked for me is a diet of eggs, cheese, bacon, chicken, ground beef, ground pork, roast beef, turkey, pepperoni, kale, cabbage, Brussels sprouts, coffee, seltzer, bone broth, half & half, heavy cream, rebel ice cream (but not other keto ice cream brands), almond flour, ground pork rinds (as a bread crumb substitute), and probably some more I'm forgetting. Typical advice is to stay under 20g net carbs, but I've found that I do better if I count total carbs instead for any non-veggie foods. Keto-friendly substitutes for flour and sugar mess me up most of the time, but I've found a few things that are ok. I also do intermittent fasting, only eating one or two meals during a 6-8 hour window, but I do much better if I fast for 36-48 hours. Dr Eckberg has some good videos on why fasting that long makes a difference.
KMnO4 5y ago
Anecdotal, but a Keto diet has completely flatlined my BG — in a very good way. I’m talking about being in the range of 4.8 to 5.8 for weeks on end. My endocrinologist thinks I’m a wizard and has never seen anyone with 100% in range. I also love that I never have to bolus with food. It’s the closest I can get to pretending I’m not a T1D. I just eat. If I’m full, I stop and don’t have to worry that I accidentally took too much insulin. To reiterate, I take zero boluses when I’m on the keto diet. Doctors are against it because they’re dealing with ketoacidosis on a regular basis. Ketosis also means your body is producing ketones (which I believe is the source of confusion for doctors), but that’s fine because your BG is in a normal range. Technically you’re at higher risk for ketoacidosis when on the keto diet because of those ketones, but realistically your BG is not going to reach >15mmol/L so you don’t have to worry too much. By the way, you may be interested in Loop[0] if you wanted to look at a more advanced closed loop system. It can handle both auto basal and auto bolusing. [0]: https://loopkit.github.io/loopdocs/ https://loopkit.github.io/loopdocs/
- mpreda 5y ago
  Could you please share a bit more information about the insulin (kind, amount) you use during the keto diet? and how did you discover the right amount of insulin? It seems to me, if one would let the insulin slip too low, one would be in danger of ketoacidosis, isn't that so? Also, do you drink any alcoholic drinks?
- beardface 5y ago
  > To reiterate, I take zero boluses when I’m on the keto diet. I'm very surprised by this and would love to hear what you eat while doing keto. I'm T1 but still have to bolus when doing keto, even when doing zero carb and fasting for 18+ hours a day. I only need between 1 and 3 units but there's rarely an occasion when I don't need to bolus at all. > Doctors are against it because they’re dealing with ketoacidosis on a regular basis. The issue my endo has is that my BG is much lower than he would like. I've heard the phrase "too well controlled" so many times and it irritates me no end. His concern is that I'll lose awareness of low BG, and can't comprehend how I'm able to function as usual even when my BG is ~2.5 mmol/l (to clarify - I don't aim to run that low; my target range is 4-6).
jimrandomh 5y ago
T1 here. I use OpenAPS with a G6 for closed looping (it's substantially better than Medtronic's looping algorithm), combined with a keto diet. The keto diet makes things a lot easier; there's no carb entry to do, so no opportunities for mistakes. I would indeed recommend it. Just make sure to count calories (at least initially) and keep them high enough; most people on keto diets are using them for weight loss, and that style of keto diet isn't sustainable.
- DougWebb 5y ago
  Well, once you've finished "eating" your body fat, you can't sustain the calorie restriction. But at that point there's no reason too. For those of us prone to insulin resistance, we have to continue to eat low-carb to avoid putting the weight back on. (Very similar to how an alcoholic who's gotten sober has to continue to avoid alcohol.) But we don't need to have a caloric deficit anymore.
markh 5y ago
This book might be of interest: Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution: The Complete Guide to Achieving Normal Blood Sugars It’s comprehensive and goes into the why and how, which is not to say it’s easy to do.

by jcims 5y ago

rpmisms 5y ago

Keto is generally best once you've finished developing. If she's under 18, I wouldn't do Keto.

jcims 5y ago
She's right on the bubble, but something tells me I've got some time.

tempdiabetic 5y ago

Dr. Phinney's lectures (Virta Health) are a good resource. Here's the first one, it's easy to find the rest: https://youtu.be/1IEuhp8RFMU https://youtu.be/1IEuhp8RFMU Your fat sources should be nuts and olive oil and chia seed, with some cheese and egg. Healthy food with lots of healthy fat. The brain uses ketones as fuel, so you will find that hypoglycemia is easily handled. In ketosis, your brain will have plenty of fuel, even if your blood glucose drops too low.

gukov 5y ago

Look into the Type1Grit community: https://youtu.be/FXRNYWPooqc https://youtu.be/FXRNYWPooqc

DougWebb 5y ago

I'd recommend watching Dr Sten Eckberg's videos, like this one: https://youtu.be/XTmUnIrmAe8 https://youtu.be/XTmUnIrmAe8 I'm on a keto diet for chronic insulin resistance and obesity, caused by 50 years of high carb eating. (Every meal a sandwich, or including potatoes or rice, and lots of sugar.) I got a CGM a few months ago to help me directly see the impact of the foods I'm eating. It has allowed me to fine tune my diet and get rid of everything that causes a noticable rise in my glucose. My daily graph now shows little more than than the natural daily cycle of glucose produced by my liver: starts rising before dawn, peaks around 10am, drops to my average by 6pm, and drops to daily low around 3am. If I were a type 2 diabetic (I was headed there), I wouldn't need supplemental insulin because I'm not eating anything that increases my glucose. The only glucose in my blood is the small amount my liver puts there because I need it. If I were type 1, I'd need to take insulin because my body wouldn't be making any at all. With my natural, consistent, and small-range daily pattern, it would be easy to predict my needs and take the right amount at the right time. CGMs are life changing.

LegitShady 5y ago
so what foods did you cut out, and what foods do you regularly eat?
- DougWebb 5y ago
  Everybody's body responds differently, so you have to experiment to see what works for you. The CGM has been a great tool for that. I also use a Keto-Mojo for blood glucose and ketone testing now and then. What's worked for me is a diet of eggs, cheese, bacon, chicken, ground beef, ground pork, roast beef, turkey, pepperoni, kale, cabbage, Brussels sprouts, coffee, seltzer, bone broth, half & half, heavy cream, rebel ice cream (but not other keto ice cream brands), almond flour, ground pork rinds (as a bread crumb substitute), and probably some more I'm forgetting. Typical advice is to stay under 20g net carbs, but I've found that I do better if I count total carbs instead for any non-veggie foods. Keto-friendly substitutes for flour and sugar mess me up most of the time, but I've found a few things that are ok. I also do intermittent fasting, only eating one or two meals during a 6-8 hour window, but I do much better if I fast for 36-48 hours. Dr Eckberg has some good videos on why fasting that long makes a difference.

KMnO4 5y ago

Anecdotal, but a Keto diet has completely flatlined my BG — in a very good way. I’m talking about being in the range of 4.8 to 5.8 for weeks on end. My endocrinologist thinks I’m a wizard and has never seen anyone with 100% in range. I also love that I never have to bolus with food. It’s the closest I can get to pretending I’m not a T1D. I just eat. If I’m full, I stop and don’t have to worry that I accidentally took too much insulin. To reiterate, I take zero boluses when I’m on the keto diet. Doctors are against it because they’re dealing with ketoacidosis on a regular basis. Ketosis also means your body is producing ketones (which I believe is the source of confusion for doctors), but that’s fine because your BG is in a normal range. Technically you’re at higher risk for ketoacidosis when on the keto diet because of those ketones, but realistically your BG is not going to reach >15mmol/L so you don’t have to worry too much. By the way, you may be interested in Loop[0] if you wanted to look at a more advanced closed loop system. It can handle both auto basal and auto bolusing. [0]: https://loopkit.github.io/loopdocs/ https://loopkit.github.io/loopdocs/

mpreda 5y ago
Could you please share a bit more information about the insulin (kind, amount) you use during the keto diet? and how did you discover the right amount of insulin? It seems to me, if one would let the insulin slip too low, one would be in danger of ketoacidosis, isn't that so? Also, do you drink any alcoholic drinks?
beardface 5y ago
> To reiterate, I take zero boluses when I’m on the keto diet. I'm very surprised by this and would love to hear what you eat while doing keto. I'm T1 but still have to bolus when doing keto, even when doing zero carb and fasting for 18+ hours a day. I only need between 1 and 3 units but there's rarely an occasion when I don't need to bolus at all. > Doctors are against it because they’re dealing with ketoacidosis on a regular basis. The issue my endo has is that my BG is much lower than he would like. I've heard the phrase "too well controlled" so many times and it irritates me no end. His concern is that I'll lose awareness of low BG, and can't comprehend how I'm able to function as usual even when my BG is ~2.5 mmol/l (to clarify - I don't aim to run that low; my target range is 4-6).

jimrandomh 5y ago

T1 here. I use OpenAPS with a G6 for closed looping (it's substantially better than Medtronic's looping algorithm), combined with a keto diet. The keto diet makes things a lot easier; there's no carb entry to do, so no opportunities for mistakes. I would indeed recommend it. Just make sure to count calories (at least initially) and keep them high enough; most people on keto diets are using them for weight loss, and that style of keto diet isn't sustainable.

DougWebb 5y ago
Well, once you've finished "eating" your body fat, you can't sustain the calorie restriction. But at that point there's no reason too. For those of us prone to insulin resistance, we have to continue to eat low-carb to avoid putting the weight back on. (Very similar to how an alcoholic who's gotten sober has to continue to avoid alcohol.) But we don't need to have a caloric deficit anymore.

markh 5y ago

This book might be of interest: Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution: The Complete Guide to Achieving Normal Blood Sugars It’s comprehensive and goes into the why and how, which is not to say it’s easy to do.