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I think there is a sort of "war on the poor" going on (or escalating really). Not specifically organized, but pushing into areas that have an outsized impact on

I think there is a sort of "war on the poor" going on (or escalating really). Not specifically organized, but pushing into areas that have an outsized impact on the poor and finding no resistance because they don't push back. Think of most consumer facing environmental laws (emissions, charge for bags, bike lanes etc), car seat laws, health stuff - like basically any covid rule, it's all super regressive. I think there is positive feedback because it keeps the poor "in their place" while simultaneously signaling how progressive the proponents are. Expect it to get a lot worse.

godelski 5y ago
> Not specifically organized, but pushing into areas that have an outsized impact on the poor and finding no resistance because they don't push back. I would definitely call this emergence[0]. For example the IRS has been known to push more against poor people than rich people because it is simply easier. That isn't IRS officials taking the stance "fuck poor people" but rather that it is extremely frustrating to go after rich people who have massive amounts of wealth and are using that power to make it very difficult for auditors to track everything. We see this kind of emergence happen all over, where people aren't doing things that are actually planned but patterns emerge. I think economists would mostly agree and just point to incentive structures, but I don't think this is a common way of thinking. Anyways, I fully agree that we shouldn't be pushing regressive systems. Even if it is easier. Maybe we should start thinking about "Not because they are easy, but because they are hard." [0] Actually I think a lot of what people believe is "deep state" and organized actors can more easily be explained by emergence.
- version_five 5y ago
  I definitely agree with you that most of what looks like deliberate planning in complex systems is emergent behavior. Deliberate planning (in complex systems I mean) can usually be recognized because of how poorly it works.
- MichaelZuo 5y ago
  It’s not at all clear that it’s more frustrating per dollar recoverable, for the IRS. It may be that agents aren’t evaluated on a total dollars recovered basis but a number of case closed basis. Which would directly explain why going after easily provable cases makes sense.

godelski 5y ago

> Not specifically organized, but pushing into areas that have an outsized impact on the poor and finding no resistance because they don't push back. I would definitely call this emergence[0]. For example the IRS has been known to push more against poor people than rich people because it is simply easier. That isn't IRS officials taking the stance "fuck poor people" but rather that it is extremely frustrating to go after rich people who have massive amounts of wealth and are using that power to make it very difficult for auditors to track everything. We see this kind of emergence happen all over, where people aren't doing things that are actually planned but patterns emerge. I think economists would mostly agree and just point to incentive structures, but I don't think this is a common way of thinking. Anyways, I fully agree that we shouldn't be pushing regressive systems. Even if it is easier. Maybe we should start thinking about "Not because they are easy, but because they are hard." [0] Actually I think a lot of what people believe is "deep state" and organized actors can more easily be explained by emergence.

version_five 5y ago
I definitely agree with you that most of what looks like deliberate planning in complex systems is emergent behavior. Deliberate planning (in complex systems I mean) can usually be recognized because of how poorly it works.
MichaelZuo 5y ago
It’s not at all clear that it’s more frustrating per dollar recoverable, for the IRS. It may be that agents aren’t evaluated on a total dollars recovered basis but a number of case closed basis. Which would directly explain why going after easily provable cases makes sense.