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Anti vaccine activists don’t tend to be too good at math. They also tend to be wrapped up a whole bunch of connected conspiracy theories, of which this is just

Anti vaccine activists don’t tend to be too good at math. They also tend to be wrapped up a whole bunch of connected conspiracy theories, of which this is just one, and have their root in cultural grievances rather than objective fact, so arguing with them on a factual basis tends to be futile.

pbaka 5y ago
Well, it's not just anti-vaccine activists. You just didn't read the studies used in the actual efficiency studies presented for FDA approval, and didn't read the definitions used. You then didn't look at the endpoints measured. You then suppose journalists report stuff as they arein colloquial language, instead of parroting a marketing/PR blurb. You also then suppose that various bureaucrats in charge of Covid response in their PR sessions do the same, as do politicians. Can't fault you, not everybody has the psychological inclination for that, or has the time, or is bored enough. Some other people did, and then looked for the same in all subsequent efficiency studies since last winter. Found the same thing. Instead of just mocking people for "doing research on the toilet seat, Karen", maybe check for yourself from the original sources what they are saying, you might be surprised . All these actual peer-reviewed studies by the relevant governmental organisms in charge (US NIH, UK Technical Group, Israel Ministry of health) and FDA/ EU EDA documentation are a search away on their sites. I won't even talk about all the major US and UK university teams producing peer-reviewed published data which you can mostly find on medRxiv.
ithkuil 5y ago
This may be very often true, but there must be also people who would be willing to listen were the conversation around it clearer. The toxic information environment has very likely tipped into confusion plenty of otherwise reasonable people. I know for sure of at least one close family member, who if there was no Facebook and real life people banging on doubt and sharing misleading information, they wouldn't be constantly dragged into that direction (yesterday she told me "see, I read on a mainstream local newspaper that one vaccinated person died from covid; those antivaxxers said that the vaccine didn't work, they don't seem to be totally off the mark"; it took 5 minutes to explain that when you say that the vaccine is N% effective it means that in 100-N cases it's not effective, so having some deaths is to be expected... she was easily convinced, once she has been walked through. But it requires constant effort; the asymmetry of this information warfare is so strong; it takes far less energy to seed doubt, you don't have to be factual or even logical; while if you want to debunk stuff you have to be careful otherwise your credibility is gone)
captainredbeard 5y ago
> Anti vaccine activists don’t tend to be too good at math. Pro-forced vaccine activists don't tend to be too good at ethics or morals.
- ithkuil 5y ago
  Both extreme groups appear not to be good at ethics and morals.

pbaka 5y ago

Well, it's not just anti-vaccine activists. You just didn't read the studies used in the actual efficiency studies presented for FDA approval, and didn't read the definitions used. You then didn't look at the endpoints measured. You then suppose journalists report stuff as they arein colloquial language, instead of parroting a marketing/PR blurb. You also then suppose that various bureaucrats in charge of Covid response in their PR sessions do the same, as do politicians. Can't fault you, not everybody has the psychological inclination for that, or has the time, or is bored enough. Some other people did, and then looked for the same in all subsequent efficiency studies since last winter. Found the same thing. Instead of just mocking people for "doing research on the toilet seat, Karen", maybe check for yourself from the original sources what they are saying, you might be surprised . All these actual peer-reviewed studies by the relevant governmental organisms in charge (US NIH, UK Technical Group, Israel Ministry of health) and FDA/ EU EDA documentation are a search away on their sites. I won't even talk about all the major US and UK university teams producing peer-reviewed published data which you can mostly find on medRxiv.

ithkuil 5y ago

This may be very often true, but there must be also people who would be willing to listen were the conversation around it clearer. The toxic information environment has very likely tipped into confusion plenty of otherwise reasonable people. I know for sure of at least one close family member, who if there was no Facebook and real life people banging on doubt and sharing misleading information, they wouldn't be constantly dragged into that direction (yesterday she told me "see, I read on a mainstream local newspaper that one vaccinated person died from covid; those antivaxxers said that the vaccine didn't work, they don't seem to be totally off the mark"; it took 5 minutes to explain that when you say that the vaccine is N% effective it means that in 100-N cases it's not effective, so having some deaths is to be expected... she was easily convinced, once she has been walked through. But it requires constant effort; the asymmetry of this information warfare is so strong; it takes far less energy to seed doubt, you don't have to be factual or even logical; while if you want to debunk stuff you have to be careful otherwise your credibility is gone)

captainredbeard 5y ago

> Anti vaccine activists don’t tend to be too good at math. Pro-forced vaccine activists don't tend to be too good at ethics or morals.

ithkuil 5y ago
Both extreme groups appear not to be good at ethics and morals.