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For the non-Canadians (and possibly some Canadians too) who miss the reference: "Our home on native land" is an alternative lyric some people sing in the nation

For the non-Canadians (and possibly some Canadians too) who miss the reference: "Our home on native land" is an alternative lyric some people sing in the national anthem in place of the line "our home and native land". The word "native" in the national anthem has nothing to do with indigenous peoples though -- it's a poor translation of "Terre de nos aïeux", which is really more along the lines of "land of our forefathers"... and is a reference specifically to the Quebecois, who settled in what is now Canada long before the British conquered them in 1759. So... yeah, you can mangle the lyrics to make a point about European settlers, or you can keep the lyrics as written and make a snide remark about how the British should give Quebec back to the Quebecois. Neither version is really very flattering to the concept of Canada as a nation!

908B64B197 5y ago
> Neither version is really very flattering to the concept of Canada as a nation! A Quebecois friend, after a bottle (or two) of wine, once told me there's no such thing as "Canadian Culture". It's all either from Quebec or a response to something Quebec did. How true is it?
- cmrdporcupine 5y ago
  I'm no Canadian nationalist/patriot, and I have a lot of respect for Quebecois culture. But that is just stupid and offensive. I don't think there's a single Canadian culture. There's many. And no, I don't think much of English Canadian culture comes "from" Quebec. In fact most people in English Canada have very little actual concept of Quebecois culture. The language divide is real. Quebec is its own distinct nation & culture within Canada. And frankly if Canada is defined most in response to something, it's the US and its revolution. Loyalist refugees firmed up the foundations of Upper Canada (Ontario) political culture, and the Canadian tradition of "peace, order, and good government" likely has its genesis as a response to the perceived excesses and dysfunctions of the American political tradition. And all of this is leaving out the first nations, which was the original topic of TFA.
  - 908B64B197 5y ago
    > Loyalist refugees Weren't a lot of them criminals that were offered to leave the US? Or who harbored allegiance to a foreign regime? Wouldn't use the term "refugee" for that... > the Canadian tradition of "peace, order, and good government" Citation needed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaver_Wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaver_Wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_the_Acadians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_the_Acadians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Canada_Rebellion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Canada_Rebellion https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/24/americas/canada-unmarked-graves-discovered/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/24/americas/canada-unmarked-grav... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_of_the_Parliament_Buildings_in_Montreal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_of_the_Parliament_Buil...
    - salamandersauce 5y ago
      The Loyalists were people loyal to the English monarchy. They didn't harbour allegiance to a foreign regime but the current one. They fled because they were on the losing side of the war.
      - cmrdporcupine 5y ago
        And not even necessarily to the English monarchy, just opposed to the American revolution or some aspects of it, or suffering economically because of it. Refugees is precisely the right word for many (not all) of them.
      - 908B64B197 5y ago
        Ad on the losing side of history as well https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Massacre
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - wk_end 5y ago
- cperciva 5y ago
  That sounds rather like what some people say about American beer: There's no such thing as American beer; there's stuff they call "beer" but it really isn't. You could probably make a case that there isn't much of a unified Canadian culture, but rather a large number of Canadian cultures. The indigenous peoples of Canada clearly have their own cultures; so do the Quebecois and the Acadians. After that you start getting more into "imported cultures"; there are large British and American influences across the country but also large minority groups which -- especially in the prairies -- have have made contributions to local cultures. It has been said that where the USA is a melting pot which turns immigrants into Americans, Canada is a mosaic in which every piece retains its original nature; immigrants are encouraged to retain their cultural practices rather than discarding them in the name of conforming to "Canadian" culture.

908B64B197 5y ago

> Neither version is really very flattering to the concept of Canada as a nation! A Quebecois friend, after a bottle (or two) of wine, once told me there's no such thing as "Canadian Culture". It's all either from Quebec or a response to something Quebec did. How true is it?

cmrdporcupine 5y ago
I'm no Canadian nationalist/patriot, and I have a lot of respect for Quebecois culture. But that is just stupid and offensive. I don't think there's a single Canadian culture. There's many. And no, I don't think much of English Canadian culture comes "from" Quebec. In fact most people in English Canada have very little actual concept of Quebecois culture. The language divide is real. Quebec is its own distinct nation & culture within Canada. And frankly if Canada is defined most in response to something, it's the US and its revolution. Loyalist refugees firmed up the foundations of Upper Canada (Ontario) political culture, and the Canadian tradition of "peace, order, and good government" likely has its genesis as a response to the perceived excesses and dysfunctions of the American political tradition. And all of this is leaving out the first nations, which was the original topic of TFA.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  > Loyalist refugees Weren't a lot of them criminals that were offered to leave the US? Or who harbored allegiance to a foreign regime? Wouldn't use the term "refugee" for that... > the Canadian tradition of "peace, order, and good government" Citation needed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaver_Wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaver_Wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_the_Acadians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_the_Acadians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Canada_Rebellion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Canada_Rebellion https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/24/americas/canada-unmarked-graves-discovered/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/24/americas/canada-unmarked-grav... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_of_the_Parliament_Buildings_in_Montreal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_of_the_Parliament_Buil...
  - salamandersauce 5y ago
    The Loyalists were people loyal to the English monarchy. They didn't harbour allegiance to a foreign regime but the current one. They fled because they were on the losing side of the war.
    - cmrdporcupine 5y ago
      And not even necessarily to the English monarchy, just opposed to the American revolution or some aspects of it, or suffering economically because of it. Refugees is precisely the right word for many (not all) of them.
    - 908B64B197 5y ago
      Ad on the losing side of history as well https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Massacre
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  - wk_end 5y ago
cperciva 5y ago
That sounds rather like what some people say about American beer: There's no such thing as American beer; there's stuff they call "beer" but it really isn't. You could probably make a case that there isn't much of a unified Canadian culture, but rather a large number of Canadian cultures. The indigenous peoples of Canada clearly have their own cultures; so do the Quebecois and the Acadians. After that you start getting more into "imported cultures"; there are large British and American influences across the country but also large minority groups which -- especially in the prairies -- have have made contributions to local cultures. It has been said that where the USA is a melting pot which turns immigrants into Americans, Canada is a mosaic in which every piece retains its original nature; immigrants are encouraged to retain their cultural practices rather than discarding them in the name of conforming to "Canadian" culture.