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> Cancel culture has always existed, it's just been branded in the last decade as a political wedge. To be clear "canceling" in the sense of "cancel culture" w

> Cancel culture has always existed, it's just been branded in the last decade as a political wedge. To be clear "canceling" in the sense of "cancel culture" was coined by the cancelers. It's not a conspiracy "to drive a political wedge", but a description using the movement's own jargon. As far as "it has always existed", I don't think that's true. Certainly campaigns of targeted harassment have always existed (which is to say "canceling" has always existed), but the culture where this kind of behavior is normalized and valued is relatively novel. Like any kind of social ill, if you rewind far enough you can find a time when it was common, but at least in my lifetime it was never normal or valued. The canonical exception which proves the rule was the Dixie Chicks' cancellation as a result of their criticism of the war, and even then to get that kind of a response, the Dixie Chicks had to say something which offended a supermajority of Americans, while "cancel culture" today is typically about offending a small minority (roughly 10%). > When your revenue is on the line you don't have a choice in this matter. So, to the parent's point, pretending to take this stance isn't not be apolitical. Like everything, opposition to cancel culture is political for a sufficiently broad definition of "political". Maybe the more interesting question is whether it's partisan, and I think your anecdote proves that it's not. There are elements of the left and the right for whom "cancel culture" is an apt description. Similarly, there are folks on all sides who oppose cancel culture.

mbesto 5y ago
> As far as "it has always existed", I don't think that's true. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott > Like any kind of social ill, if you rewind far enough you can find a time when it was common, but at least in my lifetime it was never normal or valued. Keep in mind social media has drastically amplified the attention we point on cancel culture. Both the "cancelling" itself but as well as people talking about it. Perhaps that has also increased the amount of events happening, but it doesn't mean it hasn't existed (see Boycotting above). > Like everything, opposition to cancel culture is political for a sufficiently broad definition of "political". You have to be able to define what cancel culture is first. As my little story pointed out, there is nothing I can do as a business to recourse clients not buying my product as a result of an employee getting "canceled". > Maybe the more interesting question is whether it's partisan Maybe, but trying to assign a political party to the use of its weaponry you're only further creating a divide and therefore creating partisan. In other words, if you conclude that the left/right they're using cancel culture they'll only dig their heals in more and project that the opposite side is weaponizing it. > Similarly, there are folks on all sides who oppose cancel culture. Ultimately the fact that there isn't a commonly accepted definition regardless of political affiliation is what holds us back from either eliminating it or accepting it as simply free market principles.
nautilius 5y ago
One example that immediately comes to mind is McCarthyism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism , that 'cancelled' many people's careers and normal lives at the mere accusation of being a communist. Maybe one of the more prominent victims was Oppenheimer, who created the atomic bomb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Robert_Oppenheimer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Robert_Oppenheimer .
- edbob 5y ago
  I keep seeing this brought up on HN. Isn't it telling that you have to go back 70 years to find a good example? At that time, the Democratic Party was still in bed with the KKK. It's not relevant to today's politics.
  - evgen 5y ago
    One could easily pull up stories of people in the 70s, 80s, or even 90s who were fired or ostracized for supporting homosexuality and gay rights. Left-wing causes like supporting unions or even more radical leftist politics was a firing offense deep into the 80s. The only thing that has changed over a couple of generations is that now those who were once on the receiving end of cancel culture have the power to turn the tables and people who grew up with the implicit assumption that their beliefs and behaviors were beyond reproach are learning what it means to face consequences for their speech or actions.
    - throwaway894345 5y ago
      "Being fired for something" isn't the same as being cancelled. "Cancellation" implies a concerted campaign to pressure employers into firing employees. Being fired on the grounds that you've offended your employer or said something that is broadly unpopular are both awful, but they're different than "you've said something that offended a tiny minority of the population but they're threatening to call up our clients and slander us (and otherwise make business difficult) unless we fire you".
      - 5y ago
BrightGlow 5y ago
>It's not a conspiracy "to drive a political wedge", but a description using the movement's own jargon. There isn't a conspiracy being suggested. The use of this term was heavily promoted last year by certain people and news outlets towards a certain demographic. In other words, the meme took off and became viral: https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-cancel-culture-tucker-carlson-gutfeld-new-show-2021-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-cancel-culture-tuck... Further polling data illustrates the effect of this, where views on the term are split among party lines: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/08/17/how-americans-feel-about-cancel-culture-and-offensive-speech-in-6-charts/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/08/17/how-america...

mbesto 5y ago

> As far as "it has always existed", I don't think that's true. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott > Like any kind of social ill, if you rewind far enough you can find a time when it was common, but at least in my lifetime it was never normal or valued. Keep in mind social media has drastically amplified the attention we point on cancel culture. Both the "cancelling" itself but as well as people talking about it. Perhaps that has also increased the amount of events happening, but it doesn't mean it hasn't existed (see Boycotting above). > Like everything, opposition to cancel culture is political for a sufficiently broad definition of "political". You have to be able to define what cancel culture is first. As my little story pointed out, there is nothing I can do as a business to recourse clients not buying my product as a result of an employee getting "canceled". > Maybe the more interesting question is whether it's partisan Maybe, but trying to assign a political party to the use of its weaponry you're only further creating a divide and therefore creating partisan. In other words, if you conclude that the left/right they're using cancel culture they'll only dig their heals in more and project that the opposite side is weaponizing it. > Similarly, there are folks on all sides who oppose cancel culture. Ultimately the fact that there isn't a commonly accepted definition regardless of political affiliation is what holds us back from either eliminating it or accepting it as simply free market principles.

nautilius 5y ago

One example that immediately comes to mind is McCarthyism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism , that 'cancelled' many people's careers and normal lives at the mere accusation of being a communist. Maybe one of the more prominent victims was Oppenheimer, who created the atomic bomb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Robert_Oppenheimer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Robert_Oppenheimer .

edbob 5y ago
I keep seeing this brought up on HN. Isn't it telling that you have to go back 70 years to find a good example? At that time, the Democratic Party was still in bed with the KKK. It's not relevant to today's politics.
- evgen 5y ago
  One could easily pull up stories of people in the 70s, 80s, or even 90s who were fired or ostracized for supporting homosexuality and gay rights. Left-wing causes like supporting unions or even more radical leftist politics was a firing offense deep into the 80s. The only thing that has changed over a couple of generations is that now those who were once on the receiving end of cancel culture have the power to turn the tables and people who grew up with the implicit assumption that their beliefs and behaviors were beyond reproach are learning what it means to face consequences for their speech or actions.
  - throwaway894345 5y ago
    "Being fired for something" isn't the same as being cancelled. "Cancellation" implies a concerted campaign to pressure employers into firing employees. Being fired on the grounds that you've offended your employer or said something that is broadly unpopular are both awful, but they're different than "you've said something that offended a tiny minority of the population but they're threatening to call up our clients and slander us (and otherwise make business difficult) unless we fire you".
    - 5y ago

BrightGlow 5y ago

>It's not a conspiracy "to drive a political wedge", but a description using the movement's own jargon. There isn't a conspiracy being suggested. The use of this term was heavily promoted last year by certain people and news outlets towards a certain demographic. In other words, the meme took off and became viral: https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-cancel-culture-tucker-carlson-gutfeld-new-show-2021-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-cancel-culture-tuck... Further polling data illustrates the effect of this, where views on the term are split among party lines: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/08/17/how-americans-feel-about-cancel-culture-and-offensive-speech-in-6-charts/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/08/17/how-america...