15 ms·

>>the distinction between data used for personalization with data used for advertising Personalization of what, exactly, if not ads? What's the proper distinct

>>the distinction between data used for personalization with data used for advertising Personalization of what, exactly, if not ads? What's the proper distinction, in your view?

antattack 5y ago
Although not what OP intended to say, personalization will eventually mean targeted pricing.
- ssss11 5y ago
  Exactly. The more data, the more control over interactions the other party has to extract maximum value. I’m always surprised when people don’t understand this. They get it if you talk about the real world, but don’t if suddenly the information is exchanged over computers.
nindalf 5y ago
For example, data on which videos on YouTube I watch are used to personalise my recommendations. My feed becomes subjectively more interesting to me. The ads aren’t personalised because I don’t see any ads. So my data is being used, just for my benefit. Does that make sense?
- kreeben 5y ago
  >> The ads aren’t personalised because I don’t see any ads. If you're watching YT and think you are not seeing ads, then you're being foiled. >> So my data is being used, just for my benefit. Apart from the word "just", I agree.
  - judge2020 5y ago
    > If you're watching YT and think you are not seeing ads, then you're being foiled. Actually running an ad blocker/paying for Premium means you aren't seeing ads, pushed by Google. Any creator might be showing you sponsorships/product placements of course, and Google has no say in that.
    - kreeben 5y ago
      When I say "you're being foiled" I'm not talking about product placements. I'm talking about how Google designs its sorting algorithm for me, on my personalized YT front page and how that assortment challenges me to become involved, enticed even, to view/buy certain things.
      - shapefrog 5y ago
        So you think google is guiding you, based on your profile based on all the data they have collected on you, to (for example) specific tech product reviews in order to entice you to consume goods at retailer walmart/dell/apple/samsung etc?
        kreeben 5y ago
        >> So you think google is Yes >> guiding you Yes >> based on your profile Yes >> based on all the data they have collected on you Yes >> in order to entice you to consume goods Yes
        shapefrog 5y ago
        So is that a No to all the relevant bits then?
        kreeben 5y ago
        What relevant bits of of Google's conduct did I fail to address?
- petre 5y ago
  I see ads on my Apple TV but they're not personalized, just random food delivery, lots if ads for chips, shampoo and meds, or the usual junk that you see on cable TV. I fail to see how this brings me any benefit.
- ssss11 5y ago
  I wonder how many people (excluding those benefitting from the adtech industry) hold the view that they enjoy seeing personalised ads. My guess is very very few.
r_klancer 5y ago
If I send an email to someone appearing to expect a reply, and I don't get a reply within X days (I think X=5), Gmail surfaces the email with a chip saying "Sent 5 days ago. Follow up?" If I receive a travel reservation confirmation email, I receive a calendar reminder on my phone a few days before the trip. This is personalization. But years ago Google made a commitment not to use Gmail data to customize ads (after initially doing so). So there's a real difference between personalization data and ads data. Closer to home for me, we are legally barred from using Fitbit data for ads or allowing any system (or person!) in the Ads organization to access it in any way. But nobody said we can't personalize your Fitbit experience based on data derived from, say, your Fitbit exercise history.
- kreeben 5y ago
  >> This is personalization. But years ago Google made a commitment not to use Gmail data to customize ads (after initially doing so). Oh! Well, I actually did not know this. You are saying they realized they shouldn't use my Gmail to customize what ads they show me; how can I verify you are right to say so? >> So there's a real difference between personalization data and ads data. I still don't see the distinction.
  - prlambert 5y ago
    Yes, since 2017 no Gmail data is used for any Ad targeting, across any part of Google. Here's a NYT article: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/23/technology/gmail-ads.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/23/technology/gmail-ads.html Unfortunately this goes against people's default (and incorrect) mental model of how Google operates, so it's been a very hard message to land. Disclosure: Current Googler and I was a PM on Gmail at the time.
    - JohnFen 5y ago
      The message doesn't really land with me because it's so specific. Not using collected data for "ad targeting" leaves a LOT of room for uses of the data that I object to, including marketing purposes that don't happen to be ad targeting.

>>the distinction between data used for personalization with data used for advertising Personalization of what, exactly, if not ads? What's the proper distinction, in your view?

antattack 5y ago

Although not what OP intended to say, personalization will eventually mean targeted pricing.

ssss11 5y ago
Exactly. The more data, the more control over interactions the other party has to extract maximum value. I’m always surprised when people don’t understand this. They get it if you talk about the real world, but don’t if suddenly the information is exchanged over computers.

nindalf 5y ago

For example, data on which videos on YouTube I watch are used to personalise my recommendations. My feed becomes subjectively more interesting to me. The ads aren’t personalised because I don’t see any ads. So my data is being used, just for my benefit. Does that make sense?

kreeben 5y ago
>> The ads aren’t personalised because I don’t see any ads. If you're watching YT and think you are not seeing ads, then you're being foiled. >> So my data is being used, just for my benefit. Apart from the word "just", I agree.
- judge2020 5y ago
  > If you're watching YT and think you are not seeing ads, then you're being foiled. Actually running an ad blocker/paying for Premium means you aren't seeing ads, pushed by Google. Any creator might be showing you sponsorships/product placements of course, and Google has no say in that.
  - kreeben 5y ago
    When I say "you're being foiled" I'm not talking about product placements. I'm talking about how Google designs its sorting algorithm for me, on my personalized YT front page and how that assortment challenges me to become involved, enticed even, to view/buy certain things.
    - shapefrog 5y ago
      So you think google is guiding you, based on your profile based on all the data they have collected on you, to (for example) specific tech product reviews in order to entice you to consume goods at retailer walmart/dell/apple/samsung etc?
      - kreeben 5y ago
        >> So you think google is Yes >> guiding you Yes >> based on your profile Yes >> based on all the data they have collected on you Yes >> in order to entice you to consume goods Yes
        shapefrog 5y ago
        So is that a No to all the relevant bits then?
        kreeben 5y ago
        What relevant bits of of Google's conduct did I fail to address?
petre 5y ago
I see ads on my Apple TV but they're not personalized, just random food delivery, lots if ads for chips, shampoo and meds, or the usual junk that you see on cable TV. I fail to see how this brings me any benefit.
ssss11 5y ago
I wonder how many people (excluding those benefitting from the adtech industry) hold the view that they enjoy seeing personalised ads. My guess is very very few.

r_klancer 5y ago

If I send an email to someone appearing to expect a reply, and I don't get a reply within X days (I think X=5), Gmail surfaces the email with a chip saying "Sent 5 days ago. Follow up?" If I receive a travel reservation confirmation email, I receive a calendar reminder on my phone a few days before the trip. This is personalization. But years ago Google made a commitment not to use Gmail data to customize ads (after initially doing so). So there's a real difference between personalization data and ads data. Closer to home for me, we are legally barred from using Fitbit data for ads or allowing any system (or person!) in the Ads organization to access it in any way. But nobody said we can't personalize your Fitbit experience based on data derived from, say, your Fitbit exercise history.

kreeben 5y ago
>> This is personalization. But years ago Google made a commitment not to use Gmail data to customize ads (after initially doing so). Oh! Well, I actually did not know this. You are saying they realized they shouldn't use my Gmail to customize what ads they show me; how can I verify you are right to say so? >> So there's a real difference between personalization data and ads data. I still don't see the distinction.
- prlambert 5y ago
  Yes, since 2017 no Gmail data is used for any Ad targeting, across any part of Google. Here's a NYT article: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/23/technology/gmail-ads.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/23/technology/gmail-ads.html Unfortunately this goes against people's default (and incorrect) mental model of how Google operates, so it's been a very hard message to land. Disclosure: Current Googler and I was a PM on Gmail at the time.
  - JohnFen 5y ago
    The message doesn't really land with me because it's so specific. Not using collected data for "ad targeting" leaves a LOT of room for uses of the data that I object to, including marketing purposes that don't happen to be ad targeting.