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My father had this complaint about just about all cars manufactured post 1985(ish). Up until then, he, himself, could repair his own car for most issues with a

by cronix 5y ago

My father had this complaint about just about all cars manufactured post 1985(ish). Up until then, he, himself, could repair his own car for most issues with a basic set of tools that most people already had in their houses. Then they started putting computers and proprietary parts in, making it so that he had to take it to a dealership or repair shop who had the specialized multi-thousand dollar equipment to read the chips. Define "repairable." It was still repairable, just not by him.

ch4s3 5y ago
Cars made back then were easy to fix in a sense, but broke often, got terrible gas mileage, and were largely death traps in any crash over ~45mph. There are certainly parts of modern cars that should be easier to fix yourself, but in a lot of ways they're less difficult to repair. The engine compartments are smaller, and the engines have more parts which means it takes longer. However if you can hook up and read the OBD2 system codes you get a lot of diagnostic info that was never previously available. This can mean you send a lot less time redoing work. The real limiting factor is space. If you're not averse to Quora, there's a nice discussion here https://www.quora.com/Why-are-modern-vehicles-so-difficult-to-fix https://www.quora.com/Why-are-modern-vehicles-so-difficult-t....
pengaru 5y ago
From the 70s to 80s cars were a complete shit show as they had smog control systems tacked on. Your father's sentiments are more applicable to pre-70s vehicles, before smog control laws arrived. By the mid 90s things settled down and were much simplified, thanks to the computers and electrification of most actuators. You just treat the engine control module as a black box, with a small handful of easily tested sensors. I'd take any 90s car over most post-smog ~pre-obd era vehicles, your father's complaint strikes me as more an irrational fear of computers. There's a definite sweet spot in the 90s where computerized cars still have throttle cables but extremely simple and minimalist computerized engine control systems vs. years prior.
bityard 5y ago
I've heard this a lot, that cars stopped being repairable by the Average Joe (and Jolene) once they started putting computers in them. After having worked on my own cars' weird problems and watching a lot more car repair YouTube videos than I'd like to admit, I have to say a lot of that is just bunk. Not all of it, just most of it. Yes, cars got a lot more complicated. Yes, there are a few parts on them that the shadetree mechanic has no chance of fixing on their own, such as an automatic transmission or the car's security system. (Those parts, you either replace the whole modular unit, or pay a specialist/dealership to repair.) But for the most part, they are still _systems_ and they are still _understandable_ and repairable. The key is that you have to have the willingness to learn how these newfangled systems work. To make it a computer analogy, it's like an old COBOL programmer complaining that you can't fix modern computer programmers because everything is Javascript now. It's my observation that over the decades, the mechanical components of cars (the engine and transmission) have gotten extremely reliable while the electrical and computer systems are where most problems occur. That means you have to understand the basics of electronics and electricity in order to troubleshoot these kinds of issues. I know a few motorcycle guys who can rebuild a whole engine for fun on a lazy Sunday afternoon, but the moment there's a slight electrical problem with the bike, they throw their hands up and trailer it into a shop. On the diagnostic front, the good news is that auto makers have standardized on a lot of things that actually make it _easier_ for independent shops and home-gamers to work on modern cars. For instance, all cars have an ODBII port and CAN bus through which you can (at a minimum) read diagnostic codes and read live data through with a dirt-cheap reader. More advanced scan tools can graph live data from every sensor on the car, communicate with the car's various modules, perform diagnostics, and other fun things. These cost more of course (hundreds of dollars) but can still cost under one trip to the repair shop depending on the issue if you're willing to put in the effort and time.

by cronix 5y ago

ch4s3 5y ago

Cars made back then were easy to fix in a sense, but broke often, got terrible gas mileage, and were largely death traps in any crash over ~45mph. There are certainly parts of modern cars that should be easier to fix yourself, but in a lot of ways they're less difficult to repair. The engine compartments are smaller, and the engines have more parts which means it takes longer. However if you can hook up and read the OBD2 system codes you get a lot of diagnostic info that was never previously available. This can mean you send a lot less time redoing work. The real limiting factor is space. If you're not averse to Quora, there's a nice discussion here https://www.quora.com/Why-are-modern-vehicles-so-difficult-to-fix https://www.quora.com/Why-are-modern-vehicles-so-difficult-t....

pengaru 5y ago

From the 70s to 80s cars were a complete shit show as they had smog control systems tacked on. Your father's sentiments are more applicable to pre-70s vehicles, before smog control laws arrived. By the mid 90s things settled down and were much simplified, thanks to the computers and electrification of most actuators. You just treat the engine control module as a black box, with a small handful of easily tested sensors. I'd take any 90s car over most post-smog ~pre-obd era vehicles, your father's complaint strikes me as more an irrational fear of computers. There's a definite sweet spot in the 90s where computerized cars still have throttle cables but extremely simple and minimalist computerized engine control systems vs. years prior.

bityard 5y ago

I've heard this a lot, that cars stopped being repairable by the Average Joe (and Jolene) once they started putting computers in them. After having worked on my own cars' weird problems and watching a lot more car repair YouTube videos than I'd like to admit, I have to say a lot of that is just bunk. Not all of it, just most of it. Yes, cars got a lot more complicated. Yes, there are a few parts on them that the shadetree mechanic has no chance of fixing on their own, such as an automatic transmission or the car's security system. (Those parts, you either replace the whole modular unit, or pay a specialist/dealership to repair.) But for the most part, they are still _systems_ and they are still _understandable_ and repairable. The key is that you have to have the willingness to learn how these newfangled systems work. To make it a computer analogy, it's like an old COBOL programmer complaining that you can't fix modern computer programmers because everything is Javascript now. It's my observation that over the decades, the mechanical components of cars (the engine and transmission) have gotten extremely reliable while the electrical and computer systems are where most problems occur. That means you have to understand the basics of electronics and electricity in order to troubleshoot these kinds of issues. I know a few motorcycle guys who can rebuild a whole engine for fun on a lazy Sunday afternoon, but the moment there's a slight electrical problem with the bike, they throw their hands up and trailer it into a shop. On the diagnostic front, the good news is that auto makers have standardized on a lot of things that actually make it _easier_ for independent shops and home-gamers to work on modern cars. For instance, all cars have an ODBII port and CAN bus through which you can (at a minimum) read diagnostic codes and read live data through with a dirt-cheap reader. More advanced scan tools can graph live data from every sensor on the car, communicate with the car's various modules, perform diagnostics, and other fun things. These cost more of course (hundreds of dollars) but can still cost under one trip to the repair shop depending on the issue if you're willing to put in the effort and time.