5 ms·

One thing that amazes me is how many of even the most-effective people I know seem to spend multiple hours a day doing low-value web browsing. Is it actually im

by ubac 5y ago

One thing that amazes me is how many of even the most-effective people I know seem to spend multiple hours a day doing low-value web browsing. Is it actually impossible to avoid that temptation? Or are there people who manage it but they're just living in a different world than I am?

handrous 5y ago
The Web has a strange way of feeling both important and interesting while, on reflection, not really being either. There's some kind of time-eating black magic at work—and that's before something like TikTok or Facebook get involved, where there's no mystery about why they have the effect they do.
- ubac 5y ago
  can't remember where it is but there's an amazing pg quote somewhere wondering whether the net effect of hn has been positive or negative on account of the time-eating aspect. (I think his conclusion was "almost certainly very positive, but I have moments of doubt....")
  - r_a_d 5y ago
    There's a bit in 'What I worked on' where he says "Hacker News is definitely useful. I've learned a lot from things I've read on HN. I've written several essays that began as comments there. So I wouldn't want the site to go away. But I would like to be sure it's not a net drag on productivity. What a disaster that would be, to attract thousands of smart people to a site that caused them to waste lots of time. I wish I could be 100% sure that's not a description of HN."
- majormajor 5y ago
  Is it the social aspect? Far more people are able to hang out and talk with friends for hours on end than are able to read a book for hours on end, say. Throw in the ease of changing direction (jumping from one article from another in a wiki rabbit hole, say), too.
  - SuoDuanDao 5y ago
    I've heard that if one sets the display screen (whatever it is) to be black-and-white, the web gets much less compelling. I'm sure there are more factors than that, but it's funny how much bright colours in feedback play a role.
- leobg 5y ago
  One of the most important ideas I‘ve come across in the last few days while doing low-value browsing on HN was an insight shared by Rich Hickey: „A computer is the absolute worst place to do thinking“. I think it was in his talk „Hammock driven development“. I actually installed a hammock in my office yesterday because of it. It takes self-control to actually go over and use it. And to leave my phone at the desk, too. But once I do, I profit tremdenously. I get ideas. I see the big picture. I get energized again.
  - nicbou 5y ago
    I develop many ideas on my motorcycle, or on my bicycle, or while having breakfast. Once I have a computer, my brain is rarely idle enough for that.
  - chasd00 5y ago
    I walk to a family dollar that’s 30 min round trip from my house. Many problems have been solved by a slim Jim and diet Dr Pepper.
  - mbrodersen 5y ago
    Just go for a 45 min walk without bringing your phone (or if you have the discipline simply don’t use it). I solve most problems that way.
AQuantized 5y ago
I've totally cut out Reddit and other sites that have gotten increasingly low quality over the years. That said I do still regularly 'waste' time on HN, although I think it offers enough utility that it's not a bad place to relax for a while now and then. One thing I've realized over the past few years is that it's almost impossible to get away from 'wasting' a fair few hours each day. It's a good idea to let yourself disengage and move into a more diffuse mode of thought instead of trying to hold your nose to the grindstone unnecessarily. It may be that the effective people you know are that way because of their willingness to take a extended breaks rather than in spite of.
- ironmike2111 5y ago
  Any tips for high utility websites apart from this one? Would really appreciate this thanks
kmtrowbr 5y ago
One thing I've noticed is that, there is some value in stepping away from your work, and then coming back. Something like a "palate cleanser" for your mind. I agree that mindless web browsing is mostly a waste of time, but there might be some value in loading a little static into your mind, then coming back at your problem in a new frame of mind. So I try to not beat myself up too much. I have blockers and other things which I do use sometimes. I like https://selfcontrolapp.com/ https://selfcontrolapp.com/ the best for the Mac.
- leobg 5y ago
  The funny thing is that, as soon as we geeks realize that this is a problem, we immediately want to optimize away the problem by building another app. Hehe.
  - HPsquared 5y ago
    If all you have is a computer, everything looks like a computation.
dageshi 5y ago
I think it's a case of most people have a finite amount of really productive time in them per day and once it's exhausted trying to squeeze more out is counter productive. What do you fill the rest of the time with? If you accept you have a finite limit of really good productive time per day in you, it becomes easy, focus on supporting that and making sure you achieve what you can during that productive time then slack off for the rest of the day.
- mbrodersen 5y ago
  Most creative people have about 2 hours of effective time per day. The rest is thinking/noodling/playing/recovering/… time.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > Most creative people have about 2 hours of effective time per day. The rest is thinking/noodling/playing/recovering/… time. Thinking time is effective time. Intellectual labor isn't typing, though that's sometimes a necessary mechanism for reifying the output.
nicbou 5y ago
Personally, I find it incredibly addictive. Despite trying many things to keep it under control, I still struggle with it. The thing with mindless browsing is that it gives you an instant trickle of dopamine. Any other activity requires some ramp up time before it feels rewarding. It's a bit like snacking vs. cooking a meal.

by ubac 5y ago

handrous 5y ago

The Web has a strange way of feeling both important and interesting while, on reflection, not really being either. There's some kind of time-eating black magic at work—and that's before something like TikTok or Facebook get involved, where there's no mystery about why they have the effect they do.

ubac 5y ago
can't remember where it is but there's an amazing pg quote somewhere wondering whether the net effect of hn has been positive or negative on account of the time-eating aspect. (I think his conclusion was "almost certainly very positive, but I have moments of doubt....")
- r_a_d 5y ago
  There's a bit in 'What I worked on' where he says "Hacker News is definitely useful. I've learned a lot from things I've read on HN. I've written several essays that began as comments there. So I wouldn't want the site to go away. But I would like to be sure it's not a net drag on productivity. What a disaster that would be, to attract thousands of smart people to a site that caused them to waste lots of time. I wish I could be 100% sure that's not a description of HN."
majormajor 5y ago
Is it the social aspect? Far more people are able to hang out and talk with friends for hours on end than are able to read a book for hours on end, say. Throw in the ease of changing direction (jumping from one article from another in a wiki rabbit hole, say), too.
- SuoDuanDao 5y ago
  I've heard that if one sets the display screen (whatever it is) to be black-and-white, the web gets much less compelling. I'm sure there are more factors than that, but it's funny how much bright colours in feedback play a role.
leobg 5y ago
One of the most important ideas I‘ve come across in the last few days while doing low-value browsing on HN was an insight shared by Rich Hickey: „A computer is the absolute worst place to do thinking“. I think it was in his talk „Hammock driven development“. I actually installed a hammock in my office yesterday because of it. It takes self-control to actually go over and use it. And to leave my phone at the desk, too. But once I do, I profit tremdenously. I get ideas. I see the big picture. I get energized again.
- nicbou 5y ago
  I develop many ideas on my motorcycle, or on my bicycle, or while having breakfast. Once I have a computer, my brain is rarely idle enough for that.
- chasd00 5y ago
  I walk to a family dollar that’s 30 min round trip from my house. Many problems have been solved by a slim Jim and diet Dr Pepper.
- mbrodersen 5y ago
  Just go for a 45 min walk without bringing your phone (or if you have the discipline simply don’t use it). I solve most problems that way.

AQuantized 5y ago

I've totally cut out Reddit and other sites that have gotten increasingly low quality over the years. That said I do still regularly 'waste' time on HN, although I think it offers enough utility that it's not a bad place to relax for a while now and then. One thing I've realized over the past few years is that it's almost impossible to get away from 'wasting' a fair few hours each day. It's a good idea to let yourself disengage and move into a more diffuse mode of thought instead of trying to hold your nose to the grindstone unnecessarily. It may be that the effective people you know are that way because of their willingness to take a extended breaks rather than in spite of.

ironmike2111 5y ago
Any tips for high utility websites apart from this one? Would really appreciate this thanks

kmtrowbr 5y ago

One thing I've noticed is that, there is some value in stepping away from your work, and then coming back. Something like a "palate cleanser" for your mind. I agree that mindless web browsing is mostly a waste of time, but there might be some value in loading a little static into your mind, then coming back at your problem in a new frame of mind. So I try to not beat myself up too much. I have blockers and other things which I do use sometimes. I like https://selfcontrolapp.com/ https://selfcontrolapp.com/ the best for the Mac.

leobg 5y ago
The funny thing is that, as soon as we geeks realize that this is a problem, we immediately want to optimize away the problem by building another app. Hehe.
- HPsquared 5y ago
  If all you have is a computer, everything looks like a computation.

dageshi 5y ago

I think it's a case of most people have a finite amount of really productive time in them per day and once it's exhausted trying to squeeze more out is counter productive. What do you fill the rest of the time with? If you accept you have a finite limit of really good productive time per day in you, it becomes easy, focus on supporting that and making sure you achieve what you can during that productive time then slack off for the rest of the day.

mbrodersen 5y ago
Most creative people have about 2 hours of effective time per day. The rest is thinking/noodling/playing/recovering/… time.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Most creative people have about 2 hours of effective time per day. The rest is thinking/noodling/playing/recovering/… time. Thinking time is effective time. Intellectual labor isn't typing, though that's sometimes a necessary mechanism for reifying the output.

nicbou 5y ago

Personally, I find it incredibly addictive. Despite trying many things to keep it under control, I still struggle with it. The thing with mindless browsing is that it gives you an instant trickle of dopamine. Any other activity requires some ramp up time before it feels rewarding. It's a bit like snacking vs. cooking a meal.