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Yeah, that video was primed for clickbait. The picture of the repair bill they showed was from 2019 for a completely different car. Both Rossman and Rich Rebuil

by xedeon 5y ago

Yeah, that video was primed for clickbait. The picture of the repair bill they showed was from 2019 for a completely different car. Both Rossman and Rich Rebuild’s channel are complicit. There’s always more to the story. https://twitter.com/petteri_bergius/status/1438452122526310401?s=21 https://twitter.com/petteri_bergius/status/14384521225263104...

barbazoo 5y ago
There has been a follow up video by RichRebuilds where explains (and regrets) what he did. It doesn't change anything about Tesla's stance against 3rd party repairs and their reluctance to do anything other than a complete battery swap in that case.
- judge2020 5y ago
  I mean, if a part isn't supposed to be opened up to be serviced, then them doing so would increase liability in case they botch the repair or it later catches on fire. If the part was on a smaller scale, say replacing a mosfet on the ADAS unit when the service techs are only allowed to replace the full ADAS unit, would it be the same story?
- ajross 5y ago
  It may not change the individual fact, but it quite clearly doesn't support the ridiculous hyperbolic generalizations about a "non-repairable" car upthread either. Look, cars are complicated. Manufacturers write repair manuals and stock parts based on expected failures. Not every conceivable failure is going to be in those manuals. In this case there was a valve that was part of "The Battery Pack" as far as the manual was concerned, but that had a localized failure more that could have been repaired with a targetted replacement of a single part. And it wasn't in the manual. And yeah, that's sort of an engineering failure. They should have anticipated this low-hanging-fruit kind of repair (just as they do for other very common stuff like brake calipers or shocks or whatnot). And they didn't. Shame on them. But that's not a systemic failure. They just didn't write it up. What are you really asking for here? That Tesla empower its local service centers to do their own engineering work on a 400V electrical system and decide for themselves how to disassemble and reassemble the battery pack in a safe way just to save a handful[1] of battery replacements? Does that sound like a good idea? Seems like we'd be right back here with entirely different (and IMHO more justified) anti-Tesla safety flame wars. [1] So far as anyone can tell, this is in fact the only such valve that has failed on a wild Tesla. It's not like these things are dropping everywhere.
  - jcims 5y ago
    >What are you really asking for here? That Tesla empower its local service centers to do their own engineering work on a 400V electrical system ... Yes. This is what certifications are for. > and decide for themselves how to disassemble and reassemble the battery pack in a safe way just to save a handful[1] of battery replacements? No. See above. The Tesla fleet is aging every day. This type of repair is going to become much more common and the lack of recourse is going to start to decimate the used car value. If Telsa's long game is to sell trips and not cars it might not be a terrible plan.
    - ajross 5y ago
      > Yes. This is what certifications are for. No... no, it's not. Manufacturer certifications are designed to provide liability protection for repairs done by people given training on how to make specific repairs to specific systems. What you're asking for here is for someone to independently determine that this valve can be replaced in isolation from the battery it's attached to. That's not the same problem at all, and good luck getting an insurer to cover that kind of nonsense under a "certification" contract. > This type of repair is going to become much more common and the lack of recourse Again, that's just simply wrong. Small part repairs are routine and common in the Tesla world just as they are everywhere else. The overwhelming majority of repairs don't involve replacing the battery pack! This controversy was about a very specific small part that happens not to have an individual part number nor disassembly spec. And maybe it should! But your generalization is just silly. Tesla doesn't treat repairs any differently from any other manufacturer, period. You got sold a line that matched your priors.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jdsully 5y ago
The model 3 price is $13,500 just for parts which still fits with the theme of the story. Arguing over invoices is just a diversion from the real issue of repairability. Everyone agrees replacing the battery is crazy expensive - especially when a simple fix is possible.
- xedeon 5y ago
  That narrative is really not true. Tesla provides the resources for repairs and parts just like other U.S. auto manufacturers. Anything that deals with the high-voltage (HV) systems need to be certified for obvious safety and liability reasons. Tesla Parts Catalog https://epc.tesla.com/en https://epc.tesla.com/en Service and Diagnostic website https://service.tesla.com/ https://service.tesla.com/ You can access "Service and Repair Information" and even "Diagnostic Software" and pay by the hour, day, month or year... Some manufacturers won't even provide some of these to individuals and only makes them available to dealerships. My friend and I just performed maintenance on our Model 3s. We changed the A/C filter and cleaned the condenser and serviced the brakes. I just ordered the parts from the Tesla app and did everything in my garage.
  - jdsully 5y ago
    The provide some parts and some documentation but nowhere near the extent of legacy manufacturers.
    - xedeon 5y ago
      Do you have some legitimate examples? Please share them. HV parts excluded as I stated above. Here is an example of an owner ordering a 2021 center console from Tesla so he can upgrade his older model year car. https://youtu.be/6TOnzrrkxDc https://youtu.be/6TOnzrrkxDc I’ve done many other retrofit upgrades and repairs to my Teslas.

by xedeon 5y ago

barbazoo 5y ago

There has been a follow up video by RichRebuilds where explains (and regrets) what he did. It doesn't change anything about Tesla's stance against 3rd party repairs and their reluctance to do anything other than a complete battery swap in that case.

judge2020 5y ago
I mean, if a part isn't supposed to be opened up to be serviced, then them doing so would increase liability in case they botch the repair or it later catches on fire. If the part was on a smaller scale, say replacing a mosfet on the ADAS unit when the service techs are only allowed to replace the full ADAS unit, would it be the same story?
ajross 5y ago
It may not change the individual fact, but it quite clearly doesn't support the ridiculous hyperbolic generalizations about a "non-repairable" car upthread either. Look, cars are complicated. Manufacturers write repair manuals and stock parts based on expected failures. Not every conceivable failure is going to be in those manuals. In this case there was a valve that was part of "The Battery Pack" as far as the manual was concerned, but that had a localized failure more that could have been repaired with a targetted replacement of a single part. And it wasn't in the manual. And yeah, that's sort of an engineering failure. They should have anticipated this low-hanging-fruit kind of repair (just as they do for other very common stuff like brake calipers or shocks or whatnot). And they didn't. Shame on them. But that's not a systemic failure. They just didn't write it up. What are you really asking for here? That Tesla empower its local service centers to do their own engineering work on a 400V electrical system and decide for themselves how to disassemble and reassemble the battery pack in a safe way just to save a handful[1] of battery replacements? Does that sound like a good idea? Seems like we'd be right back here with entirely different (and IMHO more justified) anti-Tesla safety flame wars. [1] So far as anyone can tell, this is in fact the only such valve that has failed on a wild Tesla. It's not like these things are dropping everywhere.
- jcims 5y ago
  >What are you really asking for here? That Tesla empower its local service centers to do their own engineering work on a 400V electrical system ... Yes. This is what certifications are for. > and decide for themselves how to disassemble and reassemble the battery pack in a safe way just to save a handful[1] of battery replacements? No. See above. The Tesla fleet is aging every day. This type of repair is going to become much more common and the lack of recourse is going to start to decimate the used car value. If Telsa's long game is to sell trips and not cars it might not be a terrible plan.
  - ajross 5y ago
    > Yes. This is what certifications are for. No... no, it's not. Manufacturer certifications are designed to provide liability protection for repairs done by people given training on how to make specific repairs to specific systems. What you're asking for here is for someone to independently determine that this valve can be replaced in isolation from the battery it's attached to. That's not the same problem at all, and good luck getting an insurer to cover that kind of nonsense under a "certification" contract. > This type of repair is going to become much more common and the lack of recourse Again, that's just simply wrong. Small part repairs are routine and common in the Tesla world just as they are everywhere else. The overwhelming majority of repairs don't involve replacing the battery pack! This controversy was about a very specific small part that happens not to have an individual part number nor disassembly spec. And maybe it should! But your generalization is just silly. Tesla doesn't treat repairs any differently from any other manufacturer, period. You got sold a line that matched your priors.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

jdsully 5y ago

The model 3 price is $13,500 just for parts which still fits with the theme of the story. Arguing over invoices is just a diversion from the real issue of repairability. Everyone agrees replacing the battery is crazy expensive - especially when a simple fix is possible.

xedeon 5y ago
That narrative is really not true. Tesla provides the resources for repairs and parts just like other U.S. auto manufacturers. Anything that deals with the high-voltage (HV) systems need to be certified for obvious safety and liability reasons. Tesla Parts Catalog https://epc.tesla.com/en https://epc.tesla.com/en Service and Diagnostic website https://service.tesla.com/ https://service.tesla.com/ You can access "Service and Repair Information" and even "Diagnostic Software" and pay by the hour, day, month or year... Some manufacturers won't even provide some of these to individuals and only makes them available to dealerships. My friend and I just performed maintenance on our Model 3s. We changed the A/C filter and cleaned the condenser and serviced the brakes. I just ordered the parts from the Tesla app and did everything in my garage.
- jdsully 5y ago
  The provide some parts and some documentation but nowhere near the extent of legacy manufacturers.
  - xedeon 5y ago
    Do you have some legitimate examples? Please share them. HV parts excluded as I stated above. Here is an example of an owner ordering a 2021 center console from Tesla so he can upgrade his older model year car. https://youtu.be/6TOnzrrkxDc https://youtu.be/6TOnzrrkxDc I’ve done many other retrofit upgrades and repairs to my Teslas.