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I dont understand why people get so defensive when it comes EV vs Fuel vehicles. My friend who is an asian immigrant working in Idaho, experienced quite a bit o

I dont understand why people get so defensive when it comes EV vs Fuel vehicles. My friend who is an asian immigrant working in Idaho, experienced quite a bit of friction when he announced that he bought a Tesla. Their major argument constituted how the tax benefits paid by US citizens were going for a Tesla owner (in this case being an immigrant.)

gibbonsrcool 5y ago
A lot of people get their opinions from a chain of misinformation that starts from groups who are incentivized to keep the status quo. Even so, there are a lot more high leverage ways to spend tax money on reducing carbon than car rebates. Car rebates are a way to buy votes. I think it's pretty obvious that $7500 could be spent in way that reduces much more CO2 and doesn't benefit people that are already pretty well off.
- kevstev 5y ago
  The rebates are more directly intended to spur an EV auto industry, preferably dominated globally by US auto makers though? And I think you could argue that they did a pretty good job of this- at the very least they seem to have fast forwarded EV market share by 5-10 years, allowing at least Tesla to bootstrap itself and spurring the big auto makers into the EV game in a real way. The way things were going until 2005ish, GM would create a lot of headlines by putting a battery into some golf cart that could barely handle a trip to the mall and back and then put up its hands and say "See this just isn't practical and this is the best our MIT engineers can do vaguely waves at its ICE car lineup" And through that lens, when it certainly felt that EVs were really going nowhere aside from a few prototypes that were completely uncompetitive, or a niche for really rich people, these subsidies have essentially launched a legit EV industry that can stand on its own, and the amount of carbon reduction that will lead to seems astoundingly cheap for the price paid. I guess you can always second guess what would have happened in the absence of these incentives, but to me they seem to have legitimately pushed forward the EV market quite a bit. Without these incentives and Tesla, I personally feel that the big automakers would have continued to pay lip service for another decade or two, maybe even three, until peripheral advances in battery technology made EVs too competitive to ignore.
dillondoyle 5y ago
That's sad. Immigrants do pay taxes, for instance car registration directly I assume. The politics on immigrants of color right now is so gross. The Biden administration has to be severely inhumane and the other side cheers on literal whipping of black Haitians who clearly need our support. I also don't understand why businesses don't use their power more to try and open up & increase 'correct immigration' that politicians claim they support. We keep hearing about not having enough employees right? Social Security is going bankrupt because there aren't enough workers paying in. There are studies that show undocumented migrants are net contributors in terms of public resources they consume vs. what they pay back. I genuenly believe the color of the skin of most of the migrants plays a large roll in this, including right now Asians who are experiencing a lot of hate, kind of like Arabs post 9-11. Adding a couple hundred thousand a year won't cut it. Why not a million a year?
- reducesuffering 5y ago
  > literal whipping They were "literal" reins, not whips, and nothing yet indicates any "whipping" was happening. The reins are standard horseback riding tools and were used for that purpose. The Whitehouse just spoke with press after their evaluation of the details. They say CBP won't be using horses anymore. That's it, because it was bad optics.
CountDrewku 5y ago
Probably because it seems there's an air of superiority of being better than others for choosing an EV. There are studies that prove owners of hybrids/EV's want their card badges to flaunt they're driving them. If it were just hey I got this cool EV and I really like it I think people would be less stand-offish. Instead it feels more like "Hey I bought an EV and you're a bad person who wants to kill our planet if you don't get one. I don't care that you do things like bike to work and walk places. If you have a ICE car you're bad, conform now!" I don't want one, they don't currently meet my needs and I don't live in an urban area that has charging stations everywhere. When I say that I typically get shit on by a bunch of EV enthusiasts in online forums. So, my default response has been tainted by these encounters and I assume most EV owners are this way. I realize I'm not being fair though. I have the same problem with Vegans as well.

gibbonsrcool 5y ago

A lot of people get their opinions from a chain of misinformation that starts from groups who are incentivized to keep the status quo. Even so, there are a lot more high leverage ways to spend tax money on reducing carbon than car rebates. Car rebates are a way to buy votes. I think it's pretty obvious that $7500 could be spent in way that reduces much more CO2 and doesn't benefit people that are already pretty well off.

kevstev 5y ago
The rebates are more directly intended to spur an EV auto industry, preferably dominated globally by US auto makers though? And I think you could argue that they did a pretty good job of this- at the very least they seem to have fast forwarded EV market share by 5-10 years, allowing at least Tesla to bootstrap itself and spurring the big auto makers into the EV game in a real way. The way things were going until 2005ish, GM would create a lot of headlines by putting a battery into some golf cart that could barely handle a trip to the mall and back and then put up its hands and say "See this just isn't practical and this is the best our MIT engineers can do vaguely waves at its ICE car lineup" And through that lens, when it certainly felt that EVs were really going nowhere aside from a few prototypes that were completely uncompetitive, or a niche for really rich people, these subsidies have essentially launched a legit EV industry that can stand on its own, and the amount of carbon reduction that will lead to seems astoundingly cheap for the price paid. I guess you can always second guess what would have happened in the absence of these incentives, but to me they seem to have legitimately pushed forward the EV market quite a bit. Without these incentives and Tesla, I personally feel that the big automakers would have continued to pay lip service for another decade or two, maybe even three, until peripheral advances in battery technology made EVs too competitive to ignore.

dillondoyle 5y ago

That's sad. Immigrants do pay taxes, for instance car registration directly I assume. The politics on immigrants of color right now is so gross. The Biden administration has to be severely inhumane and the other side cheers on literal whipping of black Haitians who clearly need our support. I also don't understand why businesses don't use their power more to try and open up & increase 'correct immigration' that politicians claim they support. We keep hearing about not having enough employees right? Social Security is going bankrupt because there aren't enough workers paying in. There are studies that show undocumented migrants are net contributors in terms of public resources they consume vs. what they pay back. I genuenly believe the color of the skin of most of the migrants plays a large roll in this, including right now Asians who are experiencing a lot of hate, kind of like Arabs post 9-11. Adding a couple hundred thousand a year won't cut it. Why not a million a year?

reducesuffering 5y ago
> literal whipping They were "literal" reins, not whips, and nothing yet indicates any "whipping" was happening. The reins are standard horseback riding tools and were used for that purpose. The Whitehouse just spoke with press after their evaluation of the details. They say CBP won't be using horses anymore. That's it, because it was bad optics.

CountDrewku 5y ago

Probably because it seems there's an air of superiority of being better than others for choosing an EV. There are studies that prove owners of hybrids/EV's want their card badges to flaunt they're driving them. If it were just hey I got this cool EV and I really like it I think people would be less stand-offish. Instead it feels more like "Hey I bought an EV and you're a bad person who wants to kill our planet if you don't get one. I don't care that you do things like bike to work and walk places. If you have a ICE car you're bad, conform now!" I don't want one, they don't currently meet my needs and I don't live in an urban area that has charging stations everywhere. When I say that I typically get shit on by a bunch of EV enthusiasts in online forums. So, my default response has been tainted by these encounters and I assume most EV owners are this way. I realize I'm not being fair though. I have the same problem with Vegans as well.