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So every country allows slavery? I agree there are problems with our prison system but that is not the same thing as slavery. It doesn't meet the legal definiti

So every country allows slavery? I agree there are problems with our prison system but that is not the same thing as slavery. It doesn't meet the legal definition at all and sure you can make comparisons but it's not really morally the same either.

dvtrn 5y ago
I agree there are problems with our prison system but that is not the same thing as slavery. The actual text of 13A makes involuntary servitude and or slavery a specific statutory exemption to the abolition of slavery. How can one read it, then say it's "not the same thing"? I wasn't aware that the merits and table stakes of this particular discussion was whether or not other countries permitted slavery, when several grandparent comments ago, it was established that the criticism was levied against the United States-in a discussion about actions taken by two corporations that exist in the United States? Is the whataboutism regarding other countries and their statutory frameworks on slavery really relevant here?
- CountDrewku 5y ago
  Yeah you give up rights when you get IMPRISONED. That's the definition and point. Are you arguing prison shouldn't exist? That prisoners should do nothing while incarcerated? Aren't most prisoners paid a small amount when they actually do "work"? >Is the whataboutism regarding other countries and their statutory frameworks on slavery really relevant here? Yes, because the comment was directed specifically at the US with a sorry attempt at comparing it with fascist countries like China. allowing If we're going that route then there is nowhere slavery doesn't exist and the entire argument about avoiding slave countries is moot. To answer your first question... absolutely NO, "slavery" of imprisoned people is not the same and I think you know that, otherwise you would not care if the 13th amendment existed at all. You're presenting a disingenuous argument with a semantic word game. Any sane person knows imprisonment "slavery" and slavery blacks endured isn't the same.
  - tsimionescu 5y ago
    Prisoners in the USA are forced to work, even if they are getting some small amount of money for it. They can be further punished of they refuse to work. In contrast, many, if not all, European countries disallow forced work for prisoners. They may still offer jobs to prisoners, but the prisoners are not compelled to take them, do not suffer punishment if they don't.
    - jhgb 5y ago
      At least constitutionally, in the Czech Republic, the Charter of Fundamental Rights and Freedoms (https://www.usoud.cz/fileadmin/user_upload/ustavni_soud_www/Pravni_uprava/AJ/Listina_English_version.pdf https://www.usoud.cz/fileadmin/user_upload/ustavni_soud_www/...) does not prohibit forced labour of prisoners -- this is one of the explicit exemptions to forced labour prohibition. Of course the exemption talks about "labour imposed in accordance with law", and I don't know off the top of my head what are the legal details of this.

dvtrn 5y ago

I agree there are problems with our prison system but that is not the same thing as slavery. The actual text of 13A makes involuntary servitude and or slavery a specific statutory exemption to the abolition of slavery. How can one read it, then say it's "not the same thing"? I wasn't aware that the merits and table stakes of this particular discussion was whether or not other countries permitted slavery, when several grandparent comments ago, it was established that the criticism was levied against the United States-in a discussion about actions taken by two corporations that exist in the United States? Is the whataboutism regarding other countries and their statutory frameworks on slavery really relevant here?

CountDrewku 5y ago
Yeah you give up rights when you get IMPRISONED. That's the definition and point. Are you arguing prison shouldn't exist? That prisoners should do nothing while incarcerated? Aren't most prisoners paid a small amount when they actually do "work"? >Is the whataboutism regarding other countries and their statutory frameworks on slavery really relevant here? Yes, because the comment was directed specifically at the US with a sorry attempt at comparing it with fascist countries like China. allowing If we're going that route then there is nowhere slavery doesn't exist and the entire argument about avoiding slave countries is moot. To answer your first question... absolutely NO, "slavery" of imprisoned people is not the same and I think you know that, otherwise you would not care if the 13th amendment existed at all. You're presenting a disingenuous argument with a semantic word game. Any sane person knows imprisonment "slavery" and slavery blacks endured isn't the same.
- tsimionescu 5y ago
  Prisoners in the USA are forced to work, even if they are getting some small amount of money for it. They can be further punished of they refuse to work. In contrast, many, if not all, European countries disallow forced work for prisoners. They may still offer jobs to prisoners, but the prisoners are not compelled to take them, do not suffer punishment if they don't.
  - jhgb 5y ago
    At least constitutionally, in the Czech Republic, the Charter of Fundamental Rights and Freedoms (https://www.usoud.cz/fileadmin/user_upload/ustavni_soud_www/Pravni_uprava/AJ/Listina_English_version.pdf https://www.usoud.cz/fileadmin/user_upload/ustavni_soud_www/...) does not prohibit forced labour of prisoners -- this is one of the explicit exemptions to forced labour prohibition. Of course the exemption talks about "labour imposed in accordance with law", and I don't know off the top of my head what are the legal details of this.