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That's not a problem on platforms like ChromeOS where web apps are treated like standard apps, from the user point of view they're indistinguishable. A solutio

That's not a problem on platforms like ChromeOS where web apps are treated like standard apps, from the user point of view they're indistinguishable. A solution on other operating systems would be to use Electron, but I've seen many people on here also cry foul about that.

betwixthewires 5y ago
Electron is an even worse aspect of what I described, I thought about adding a line about it but decided to stay on point. You create an entire system designed for web apps, then you create basically a site specific browser to render just one web app because users need a dedicated client. It's another step in the senseless direction.
- BrightGlow 5y ago
  What is senseless about that? It's common for apps to bundle their dependencies, with Electron the bundle just happens to be a app platform for HTML, CSS and Javascript that we colloquially call a web browser. I'm not really a fan of Electron myself but some of the hatred it seems to get on this website is pretty irrational and unreasonable, in my opinion.
  - betwixthewires 5y ago
    So electron is "great" in the sense that it is a workaround to this disaster that I have described above that is the web. You have to build a web app, but you want a client application, the resources to build both are a lot so you just wrap your web app in electron. It's a stopgap and it's an enabler. It is not good for the user. As much as I dislike complex web apps, I will sooner run one in a tab in my browser than download an electron app. Did you know that electron apps basically bundle the entire chrome browser in with every application you use it to make? Have you ever tried running more than a couple of electron apps at once?
    - BrightGlow 5y ago
      I'm fully aware of what Electron is, you don't have to explain it. But for these teams I don't see how Electron is practically any different from any other cross-platform framework like Java. It's the same purpose. The teams using it are going for a "write once run anywhere" approach. It's not a stopgap, they're never going to spend the money on building two or more applications if they don't have to. If you think that's not good for the user, you may want to try explaining to the users that having a native app is going to cost them several times as much. That's the situations I've been in, and the cheap and easy Javascript-based solution (Electron, React Native, Flutter, etc) usually seems to win.
      - betwixthewires 5y ago
        That's only because web apps are the default. You build a system, the web app is supposed to be a demo of what your system can do. But since the days of Facebook, YouTube, reddit, the web app is the product itself. This is why these companies always break third party apps that connect to their API. So you're in one of a few situations. You have to build a web app because precedent, and you don't want cost overruns. Also use case comes second to business case. And we end up where we are. It's a mess for the user, and I don't think it's sustainable, which means this problem won't exist long term.
        BrightGlow 5y ago
        I think they break third party apps because it's a real pain to keep maintaining a bunch of incompatible old versions of an API forever. Also your last paragraph doesn't follow to me because the whole reason these apps exist is because they are web apps. They wouldn't exist otherwise. That's the whole reason they are sustainable now in the first place. They're the default because it's the cheapest and easiest way to deliver a product for billions of users.

betwixthewires 5y ago

Electron is an even worse aspect of what I described, I thought about adding a line about it but decided to stay on point. You create an entire system designed for web apps, then you create basically a site specific browser to render just one web app because users need a dedicated client. It's another step in the senseless direction.

BrightGlow 5y ago
What is senseless about that? It's common for apps to bundle their dependencies, with Electron the bundle just happens to be a app platform for HTML, CSS and Javascript that we colloquially call a web browser. I'm not really a fan of Electron myself but some of the hatred it seems to get on this website is pretty irrational and unreasonable, in my opinion.
- betwixthewires 5y ago
  So electron is "great" in the sense that it is a workaround to this disaster that I have described above that is the web. You have to build a web app, but you want a client application, the resources to build both are a lot so you just wrap your web app in electron. It's a stopgap and it's an enabler. It is not good for the user. As much as I dislike complex web apps, I will sooner run one in a tab in my browser than download an electron app. Did you know that electron apps basically bundle the entire chrome browser in with every application you use it to make? Have you ever tried running more than a couple of electron apps at once?
  - BrightGlow 5y ago
    I'm fully aware of what Electron is, you don't have to explain it. But for these teams I don't see how Electron is practically any different from any other cross-platform framework like Java. It's the same purpose. The teams using it are going for a "write once run anywhere" approach. It's not a stopgap, they're never going to spend the money on building two or more applications if they don't have to. If you think that's not good for the user, you may want to try explaining to the users that having a native app is going to cost them several times as much. That's the situations I've been in, and the cheap and easy Javascript-based solution (Electron, React Native, Flutter, etc) usually seems to win.
    - betwixthewires 5y ago
      That's only because web apps are the default. You build a system, the web app is supposed to be a demo of what your system can do. But since the days of Facebook, YouTube, reddit, the web app is the product itself. This is why these companies always break third party apps that connect to their API. So you're in one of a few situations. You have to build a web app because precedent, and you don't want cost overruns. Also use case comes second to business case. And we end up where we are. It's a mess for the user, and I don't think it's sustainable, which means this problem won't exist long term.
      - BrightGlow 5y ago
        I think they break third party apps because it's a real pain to keep maintaining a bunch of incompatible old versions of an API forever. Also your last paragraph doesn't follow to me because the whole reason these apps exist is because they are web apps. They wouldn't exist otherwise. That's the whole reason they are sustainable now in the first place. They're the default because it's the cheapest and easiest way to deliver a product for billions of users.