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1. Toxins over large timescales.(also I’m assuming they aren’t the only thing in the landfill) Most modern plastics won’t leech toxins onto your food in the sho

by ahevia 5y ago

1. Toxins over large timescales.(also I’m assuming they aren’t the only thing in the landfill) Most modern plastics won’t leech toxins onto your food in the short time it takes from field to fridge. However microplastics are a concern and they do end up on fruit and vegetables that are in plastic packaging. The amount of course varies.(factors such as type of plastic, temperature, friction, shipping method all impact this) The study of microplastics on human health is quite young but initial results don’t paint a pretty picture. 2. Good point! Errors in foundations or any permeable gaps can still cause leachate to escape. There is also the concern of gases escaping during the lifetime of landfills as well. You also have an issue of land usage. We have a limited amount of land and that amount is expected to decrease as sea levels rise. I think landfills don’t provide much bang for buck in terms of land value as opposed farms, parks, (I’ve heard of landfills being turned into parks but we still have the concerns of low to moderate containments in the surrounding soil) nuclear/solar/wind farms (although luckily you can still use landfills for these since contact with the public would be minimal), and wildlife habitats. Any ban on plastics, even if it reduces the waste going to landfills by a tiny or fractional amount. Sounds like a win to me

gruez 5y ago
>Toxins over large timescales.(also I’m assuming they aren’t the only thing in the landfill) Most modern plastics won’t leech toxins onto your food in the short time it takes from field to fridge. What about the plastic wrapped foods that last for years? Are those just low in toxin and the plastic clamshell packaging for fruits/vegetables loaded with toxins? >Errors in foundations or any permeable gaps can still cause leachate to escape. There is also the concern of gases escaping during the lifetime of landfills as well. Without getting more specific about what what "toxins" consistns of, it's hard to know assess the actual risk of them. eg. for BPA wikipedia says: >Despite a rapid soil and water half-life of 4.5 days, and an air half-life of less than one day, BPA's ubiquity makes it an important pollutant. It's probably fine even if it leeches out into a landfill, and there's some cracks? By the time it leaks out it would have degraded already. >We have a limited amount of land and that amount is expected to decrease as sea levels rise. America is definitely not running out of landfill space anytime soon. For asia/europe incineration is an alternative >I think landfills don’t provide much bang for buck in terms of land value as opposed farms That sounds like a non-issue given that we have a functioning market for land?
- ahevia 5y ago
  These are all great questions, but I am out of my element here. Microplastics & land usage aren’t my areas of expertise (just a casual interest) so I'm hoping someone else can come along and give you informative answers.
- rualca 5y ago
  > What about the plastic wrapped foods that last for years? I appreciate a good whataboutism as the next guy, but please keep in mind that fruit already has short shelf life, and plastic packaging is not used for longevity or higiene but to protect the product from mechanical actions and to prebundle items. > It's probably fine even if it leeches out into a landfill (...) The whole point of using paper-based packaging is that this problem simply does not exist at all, it's recyclable, and the timespan it takes to biodegrade is not measured in geological time.
  - gruez 5y ago
    >I appreciate a good whataboutism as the next guy I fail to see how that's whataboutism. I'm not trying to justify one form of plastic packaging with another. I'm merely questioning how much stuff actually leeches out and how it compares to how much leeches out during normal consumption. >plastic packaging is not used for longevity or higiene but to protect the product from mechanical actions and to prebundle items. The whole point of using paper-based packaging [...] I'm not sure about you, but buying pre-packaged fruits from opaque bags does not sound very appealing to me.
    - rualca 5y ago
      > I fail to see how that's whataboutism. I'm not trying to justify one form of plastic packaging with another. I'm merely questioning how much stuff actually leeches out and how it compares to how much leeches out during normal consumption. It's textbook whataboutism, in the letter and in the spirit. The proposal consists of replacing plastic-based packaging with paper-based packaging for fruits and vegetables, which have a notoriously short shelf life. You, on the other hand, tried to divert attentions to "plastic wrapped foods that last for years", as if it was relevant or meaningful. That's a totally unrelated usecase, which has zero to do with the discussion.

by ahevia 5y ago

gruez 5y ago

>Toxins over large timescales.(also I’m assuming they aren’t the only thing in the landfill) Most modern plastics won’t leech toxins onto your food in the short time it takes from field to fridge. What about the plastic wrapped foods that last for years? Are those just low in toxin and the plastic clamshell packaging for fruits/vegetables loaded with toxins? >Errors in foundations or any permeable gaps can still cause leachate to escape. There is also the concern of gases escaping during the lifetime of landfills as well. Without getting more specific about what what "toxins" consistns of, it's hard to know assess the actual risk of them. eg. for BPA wikipedia says: >Despite a rapid soil and water half-life of 4.5 days, and an air half-life of less than one day, BPA's ubiquity makes it an important pollutant. It's probably fine even if it leeches out into a landfill, and there's some cracks? By the time it leaks out it would have degraded already. >We have a limited amount of land and that amount is expected to decrease as sea levels rise. America is definitely not running out of landfill space anytime soon. For asia/europe incineration is an alternative >I think landfills don’t provide much bang for buck in terms of land value as opposed farms That sounds like a non-issue given that we have a functioning market for land?

ahevia 5y ago
These are all great questions, but I am out of my element here. Microplastics & land usage aren’t my areas of expertise (just a casual interest) so I'm hoping someone else can come along and give you informative answers.
rualca 5y ago
> What about the plastic wrapped foods that last for years? I appreciate a good whataboutism as the next guy, but please keep in mind that fruit already has short shelf life, and plastic packaging is not used for longevity or higiene but to protect the product from mechanical actions and to prebundle items. > It's probably fine even if it leeches out into a landfill (...) The whole point of using paper-based packaging is that this problem simply does not exist at all, it's recyclable, and the timespan it takes to biodegrade is not measured in geological time.
- gruez 5y ago
  >I appreciate a good whataboutism as the next guy I fail to see how that's whataboutism. I'm not trying to justify one form of plastic packaging with another. I'm merely questioning how much stuff actually leeches out and how it compares to how much leeches out during normal consumption. >plastic packaging is not used for longevity or higiene but to protect the product from mechanical actions and to prebundle items. The whole point of using paper-based packaging [...] I'm not sure about you, but buying pre-packaged fruits from opaque bags does not sound very appealing to me.
  - rualca 5y ago
    > I fail to see how that's whataboutism. I'm not trying to justify one form of plastic packaging with another. I'm merely questioning how much stuff actually leeches out and how it compares to how much leeches out during normal consumption. It's textbook whataboutism, in the letter and in the spirit. The proposal consists of replacing plastic-based packaging with paper-based packaging for fruits and vegetables, which have a notoriously short shelf life. You, on the other hand, tried to divert attentions to "plastic wrapped foods that last for years", as if it was relevant or meaningful. That's a totally unrelated usecase, which has zero to do with the discussion.