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To play Devil's advocate, are they really never a good idea? I agree with your logic about bias but bias can cut both ways. If someone's look tends to help them

To play Devil's advocate, are they really never a good idea? I agree with your logic about bias but bias can cut both ways. If someone's look tends to help them get hired why wouldn't they play that card? I don't have a photo on my resume and have never seen one used in the US, but my LinkedIn photo (which I assume everyone involved in hiring sees) is carefully chosen to represent the mix of attributes (friendlynes, confidence, curiosity, and many others) that I think are relevant for roles I go after. Surely my photo also 'reveals' my enthinicy and gender - but my name does too.

KennyBlanken 5y ago
There are also countries and industries where a photo is anywhere from expected to required. I had a lawyer friend who said that photos were expected on resumes and websites, something she hated despite the fact that she felt she benefited from it. Part of it is that firms and clients want to see a professional image, but yeah, it also brings in all the usual gender/age/ethnic biases. To answer "why wouldn't they play that card" - plenty of women know their looks/gender might get them in the door when it wouldn't otherwise, and feel like imposters even if they are highly qualified and a great match for the position. They may want to work at the kind of company that hires them because of their accomplishments, not one that says "oh, we need more women." One reason: a company that hired them because they were a woman may have done so just to fill a quota and there's no genuine interest in them succeeding and advancing...whereas another employer might see their talent and work to help them succeed. Or a company that hires just to fill quotas might put women in positions they aren't actually qualified for. Etc.
- downwithbgp 5y ago
  To add, it's common to see a headshot in an acting resume.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  > not one that says "oh, we need more women." First time I heard about "minority quotas" I just didn't believe it. But then YouTube got sued for doing exactly that [0] Do quotas actually help minorities? To me it sends the signal that everyone from a top N school who is a white or asian male is here because he's qualified. The others who knows? Maybe the recruiter was so close to hitting his incentive that he lowered the bar. [0] https://www.wsj.com/articles/youtube-hiring-for-some-positions-excluded-white-and-asian-males-lawsuit-says-1519948013 https://www.wsj.com/articles/youtube-hiring-for-some-positio...
brownguy2 5y ago
If I was white, I would definitely put my photo on my resume. But I'm not. I'm a senior executive with impeccable credentials: top 1 bank, top 3 engineering school, ivy league undergrad, executive at Series A firm. top notch names on my resume. Except on LinkedIn, the majority of inbounds i get are recruiters trying to get me to join in as entry level. I'm not speaking about mass-mailings, i'm speaking about entire screening conversations where they are telling me about this "promising" entry level role. Occasionally, i'll get a good recruiter pitching me a VP or CTO role (as I would expect) but these are rare. My white friends say they are constantly pitched with VP and Director roles.
- zdragnar 5y ago
  As a counter-anecdote, I haven't held a job with a title including anything less than "senior" in 10 years, have worked for both startups and companies with very recognizable names, and at least half of the recruiter requests are for entry level positions. I have only once been pitched a position that was equivalent or higher than my highest sounding job title, and the recruiter responded with "Sorry, we reached out to you by mistake."
ngngngng 5y ago
It's pretty tough to predict which way that's going to go. I'm positive I've been immediately rejected from jobs because I'm a white guy that went to BYU and that's pretty clear on my resume, but there are probably other jobs where that would help me out.
prionassembly 5y ago
I know forum comments are throwaways and mean nothing mean here -- but if you're job hunting with a resumé you might be judged by spelling and you have a mangling pattern to your spelling of "friendliness" that, if replicated elsewhere, could be making you look bad.

KennyBlanken 5y ago

There are also countries and industries where a photo is anywhere from expected to required. I had a lawyer friend who said that photos were expected on resumes and websites, something she hated despite the fact that she felt she benefited from it. Part of it is that firms and clients want to see a professional image, but yeah, it also brings in all the usual gender/age/ethnic biases. To answer "why wouldn't they play that card" - plenty of women know their looks/gender might get them in the door when it wouldn't otherwise, and feel like imposters even if they are highly qualified and a great match for the position. They may want to work at the kind of company that hires them because of their accomplishments, not one that says "oh, we need more women." One reason: a company that hired them because they were a woman may have done so just to fill a quota and there's no genuine interest in them succeeding and advancing...whereas another employer might see their talent and work to help them succeed. Or a company that hires just to fill quotas might put women in positions they aren't actually qualified for. Etc.

downwithbgp 5y ago
To add, it's common to see a headshot in an acting resume.
908B64B197 5y ago
> not one that says "oh, we need more women." First time I heard about "minority quotas" I just didn't believe it. But then YouTube got sued for doing exactly that [0] Do quotas actually help minorities? To me it sends the signal that everyone from a top N school who is a white or asian male is here because he's qualified. The others who knows? Maybe the recruiter was so close to hitting his incentive that he lowered the bar. [0] https://www.wsj.com/articles/youtube-hiring-for-some-positions-excluded-white-and-asian-males-lawsuit-says-1519948013 https://www.wsj.com/articles/youtube-hiring-for-some-positio...

brownguy2 5y ago

If I was white, I would definitely put my photo on my resume. But I'm not. I'm a senior executive with impeccable credentials: top 1 bank, top 3 engineering school, ivy league undergrad, executive at Series A firm. top notch names on my resume. Except on LinkedIn, the majority of inbounds i get are recruiters trying to get me to join in as entry level. I'm not speaking about mass-mailings, i'm speaking about entire screening conversations where they are telling me about this "promising" entry level role. Occasionally, i'll get a good recruiter pitching me a VP or CTO role (as I would expect) but these are rare. My white friends say they are constantly pitched with VP and Director roles.

zdragnar 5y ago
As a counter-anecdote, I haven't held a job with a title including anything less than "senior" in 10 years, have worked for both startups and companies with very recognizable names, and at least half of the recruiter requests are for entry level positions. I have only once been pitched a position that was equivalent or higher than my highest sounding job title, and the recruiter responded with "Sorry, we reached out to you by mistake."

ngngngng 5y ago

It's pretty tough to predict which way that's going to go. I'm positive I've been immediately rejected from jobs because I'm a white guy that went to BYU and that's pretty clear on my resume, but there are probably other jobs where that would help me out.

prionassembly 5y ago

I know forum comments are throwaways and mean nothing mean here -- but if you're job hunting with a resumé you might be judged by spelling and you have a mangling pattern to your spelling of "friendliness" that, if replicated elsewhere, could be making you look bad.